For those who have been following the battle in Mariupol, Putin’s order is highly interesting.
Obviously, the order is filmed and made public for its propaganda value. Sitting at the table to receive the order is Russia’s Minister of Defence, Sergei Shoigu.
At issue: Russian forces have captured all the municipal areas of Mariupol, but a Ukrainian force of about 2,000 troops have garrisoned themselves in a network of tunnels beneath the Azovstal steel plant. How to get them out?
Russian commanders have repeatedly called on the entrapped Ukrainians to surrender, but Kiev has ordered them to stand pat or risk being shot as traitors. Yesterday, one of the underground commanders offered to surrender to a third-party country and to release some 200-400 civilian hostages in his possession in the bargain.
Rumors have been flying for a couple of weeks that something or someone very important is trapped in the steel plant. Indeed, about two weeks ago French president, Macron, make a personal plea to Putin in a telephone call to allow personnel at the plant to escape. At least eight helicopters and one cargo ship have attempted to rescue the mysterious target. All unsuccessfully.
Now that the order has been given to secure the factory, we may be on the verge of learning what or who has been hiding in Azovstal.
Tidewater News and Opinion Forum 
“…Kiev has ordered them to stand pat or risk being shot as traitors.”
Cite please.
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Sorry, I don’t recall where I heard it.
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“Sorry, I don’t recall where I heard it.”
In other words, it was bullshit.
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That Kiev rejected the surrender offer is documented:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ukraine-rejects-russias-request-to-surrender-mariupol-as-kyiv-shelling-intensifies
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Why can you people never just own the bullshit when you are called on it? Instead you try to twist and shuffle.
You made a very serious statement : “Kiev has ordered them to stand pat or risk being shot as traitors.”
When asked to provide a cite you claimed to have heard that somewhere but can’t remember where.
Now, you want to focus on the fact that Kiev has not ordered them to surrender. It is pretty plain that “the risk of being shot” is something you pulled out of your ass.
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RE: “It is pretty plain that ‘the risk of being shot’ is something you pulled out of your ass.”
Are you calling me a liar for admitting it is something I heard?
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“Are you calling me a liar for admitting it is something I heard?”
Uh, Yes!
I have spent a great deal of time looking for any corroboration of your made-up threats of firing squads. There is none.
Correcting the LIES you people spread could be a full-time job. The truth means nothing to any of you and you prove that again and again. And again.
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I believe they are elite marines and have been fighting Russians for 8 years. I seriously doubt they would be considered traitors.
Rescuing them would be very difficult if not impossible without risking huge losses.
Putin has declared victory in Mariupol. He needs a victory of some kind.
So he will starve the Ukrainians.
I think Putin will pay a heavy price for this invasion. He has yet to account for the sailors on the Moskva. Relatives cannot get answers as to why their men are not accounted for. Angry mothers have been a strong force in many countries when things turn to poop. See Argentina and it’s dirty war era.
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RE: “I believe they are elite marines and have been fighting Russians for 8 years. I seriously doubt they would be considered traitors.”
Well, we know that Kiev has rejected the surrender order. Presumably, the Ukrainian troops trapped at Azovstal would be guilty of disobeying orders if they surrendered.
It is an interesting situation, since more than 1,000 of the Azov regiment (including marines) in the steel factory have in fact surrendered recently.
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200 to 400 civilian hostages??
Where is all the wailing about war crimes? Shielding themselves with civilian hostages is up there at the top of the list for war crimes.
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RE: “Where is all the wailing about war crimes?”
Surprising, isn’t it? French, British, Dutch, Australian and American independent journalists have documented scores of human-shield allegations, but you hear nothing about it in MSM.
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Your “independent” journalists are Putin mouthpieces.
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You don’t know that.
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And you do?
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Really no point in providing you with cites, if they disagree with the MSM narrative, you just reject the source.
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Really? You believe that? If Norfolk was attacked, how would you defend the city?
I suppose it is your hatred of most Americans, our government and all media except OAN, et.al., that makes you cheerlead for Putin. So I understand your wish for more Nazis in Ukraine and medals for Putin. But could you at least fake a bit of cheering for those opposing a megalomaniacal, murdering dictator. Or perhaps because he controls all media and kills those journalists who defy him you find that refreshing.
I am at a loss for all this Russian propaganda postings and praise for Putin.
Really. I never would have believed we have such admiration for a dictator…except if that is what the right admires and desires.
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RE: “I am at a loss for all this Russian propaganda postings and praise for Putin.”
I am at a loss for how much witch-hunting psychology has captured so many Americans and made it impossible to consider information they don’t want to hear.
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We hear lots of BS from Putin. That he hasn’t invaded another country is one of those lies. That Ukraine rushed in soldiers to Bucha and many other towns to pile up bodies and blame Russians is another. That losing hundreds of tanks, hundreds of weapons and trucks, thousands of soldiers, and running out of fuel and food was all part of a “master plan”.
Reds of a feather…
And you believe it.
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You don’t know what I believe. Perhaps you should ask.
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I did before. You denied believing what you post and only do so for “discussion purposes” (or words to that effect). Yet you continue to post lies, Russian propaganda and several other mistruths and then DEFEND them as real.
Go back and review some of the things you have said. It is pretty clear to anyone with critical thinking skills to see how full of shit your defense of your posts are.
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My how quick you are to accuse the people defending their country of war crimes. You see anything like a credible source in comrade Roberts’s post? After his bullshit about the Ukrainians facing firing squads if they surrender why would you give any of the things he has “heard” any credence?
In fact, there are civilians trapped by the fighting and shelling, but Russia is blocking their evacuation as leverage to force a surrender. Calling these trapped people “human shields” is exactly what lying liars would say. Don’t parrot them without doing some checking. I did a little research. It is not hard.
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-mariupol-urgent-evacuation-azovstal/31814835.html
https://www.channel4.com/news/russia-ukraine-conflict-civilians-trapped-in-mariupol-as-deadline-for-surrender-passes
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61165278
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RE: “In fact, there are civilians trapped by the fighting and shelling, but Russia is blocking their evacuation as leverage to force a surrender.”
The specific allegation is that there are civilians trapped underground with Ukrainian forces beneath Azovstal, and that Ukrainian forces are using them as hostages. As for civilians in the liberated portions of Mariupol, I can provide any number of videos showing Russian forces providing humanitarian aid and evacuation, if you are willing to be exposed to them.
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…” liberated portions of Mariupol, ”
That says a lot about what you believe. They are not “liberated”; they are innocent people victimized by an illegal, immoral, unjustified invasion of their country.
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So, you believe that 1000 civilians are voluntarily sheltering with the Azov troops, unwilling to leave under safe passage by Russia?
They’re refusing to leave a hopeless situation because they like to starve to death with the troops?
You are really desperate to avoid facing the truth that they are being held there aganst their will.
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Perhaps the fact that there have been numerous attempts, with Russian assurances (supposedly), to allow safe passage for civilians. Then they are blocked, bombed or shelled as they try to leave.
You have absolutely no evidence that they are there against their will by Ukrainians forces. None.
Mariupol still has about 100,000 civilians out of the million plus residents before the Russians invaded Ukraine. So most have either left or been killed by Russians who are using civilians as a lever to force surrender. Putin has absolutely no compunction in killing, gassing, burning and destroying civilians and residences. We know this because this is exactly what he as done as Assad’s lackey and against Chechnyans.
You just cannot get yourself to face reality that Putin is a dictator, a murderer and a good friend of your hero.
Again, I know I am wasting my time, but I just cannot believe that people are defending Putin and his invasion of a sovereign nation to gain a seaport and wheat fields.
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How many times do I have to write that Putin is a thug? The problem is that the Azov folks are every bit as much thugs, maybe worse.
There are plenty of reports of using civilians as shields but you will just dismiss the sources.
This one might be harder to dismiss.
https://greekcitytimes.com/2022/03/18/greek-refugee-from-mariupol/
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“How many times do I have to write that Putin is a thug”
It doesn’t matter how many times you say that. When you start condemning his actions and those of his army, referring to his invasion as an “invasion” and not some Kremlin claptrap that Russia is trying to “liberate” ethnic Russians, (who are actually armed separatists backed by the Kremlin to destabilize those regions he so desperately want control of) when you call the “thug” the criminal that he is, then maybe you’ll get some kudos. But calling a “criminal” just a “thug”, you give him some sort of legitimacy for his actions.
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RE: “Perhaps the fact that there have been numerous attempts, with Russian assurances (supposedly), to allow safe passage for civilians. Then they are blocked, bombed or shelled as they try to leave.”
You seem sure of your facts. Would you like to see video of Ukrainians in Mariupol claiming it was Azov regiment forces that shot them dead on the street for trying to evacuate?
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Those “Azov troops” are resisting the aggression of an actual tyrant with courage that blowhards only have in their daydreams.
“So, you believe that 1000 civilians are voluntarily sheltering . . .”
Civilians are not voluntarily sheltering in the tunnels. They are there because they think it is safer than subjecting themselves to the tender mercies of the Wagner Group and other Russians who have broken numerous arrangements for safe passage. The Russians – not the Ukrainians want them there to increase the pressure for surrender. The Ukrainian defenders can be under no illusion that the presence of women, children and babies will deter the war criminals at the gate.
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…”unwilling to leave under safe passage by Russia”
You believe that? Honestly? How many times were “humanitarian corridors” established and then ATTACKED by the Russians?
Safe passage, my great aunt fanny.
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Humanitarian corridors were for civilians, the Ukrainian military took advantage of some of them and they were closed.
But by all means, read the account above by Greek residents of a suburb of Mariupol.
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…”he Ukrainian military took advantage”
Proof? Or are you just blowing Red Smoke?
Closed? They were bombed and attacked.
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I can understand that there have been some abuses by Ukrainian forces. After all, it is a nation fighting for its very survival against a savage enemy that has been slaughtering civilians by the thousands.
Now, since you are all wrapped up in a tizzy over some Greeks who said the Russians were nicer that the Ukrainians, let’s talk war crimes as in filtration camps and forced deportations.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-forcing-ukrainians-filtration-camps-relocate-us-ambassador-united-nations
Yes, there have been some Ukrainian “Proud Boys” in the Azov Battalion, but ultra-nationalists are about 1% of parliament. Compared to the numbers involved, it is minor. And no indication that Ukraine is a Nazi state.
Now, about Putin’s atrocities and lies.
Never mind, you just excuse and believe.
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