Florida follows science on gender

Florida Dept if Health on Gender Dysphoria

Citing actual experience and data, the Florida Dept of Health has issued guidance to physicians on early treatment for gender dysphoria.

“The Florida guidance states: “A paper published in the International Review of Psychiatry states that 80 percent of those seeking clinical care will lose their desire to identify with the nonbirth sex. ” Hence, early hormonal or surgical intervention is not indicated, and can be permanently destructive.

No surprise in my view, puberty generally resolves that confusion.

61 thoughts on “Florida follows science on gender

  1. So you are okay with government agencies telling physicians what they should be doing based on science, but not when it is the CDC or the FDA? When it has been their advice you have constantly accused them of overreach and meddling in the doctor-patient relationship. No need to respond. Just saying.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. BTW, this document by the Florida Department of Health is a good example of politics corrupting government agencies. Just another artificial front in the “Culture War” with nothing much to do with science or public health.

    Liked by 2 people

      1. “Of course. Political directions consistent with the Hippocratic Oath are corrupt by definition.”

        Uh, no. They are NOT needed. That is what makes this a political document aimed at bolstering the culture warrior bona fides of the jackass out to replace Trump as the head of the culture war party.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Puberty blockers and gender assignment surgery do permanent harm, so in the face of studies that show 80% of youths seeking those treatments change their mind before they are 18, allowing them would be pretty much the same as permitting female circumcision.

          We have many laws preventing parents from doing harm to their children.

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        1. “Is that a fact?”

          Call it what you like.

          But since medical ethics are a major subject in the education of doctors, I would tend to believe that in their practices they strive to “do no harm” without being reminded by the likes of Governor DeSantis.

          Do you have ANY evidence of maltreatment of patients in Florida that this “guidance” is acting on? Or is it what the article says it is – a reaction to a new federal government summary of treatments.

          This is the federal article. . .

          Click to access gender-affirming-care-young-people-march-2022.pdf

          Something actually wrong with it other than treating gender dysphoria as a real problem? Note that irreversible treatments are not – according to this summary – for very young children.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. “The overriding ethical duty of doctors is to first do no harm.”

            You really think the world is that simple? Maybe so. Over-simplification of complex issues is a well-established trait of the “conservative” mind.

            In this case, withholding available treatment can do harm as well. That is why none of the irreversible treatments that have seized your imaginations are entered into lightly or on a whim.

            According to the original article, this guidance from Florida was in response to the federal document. You dodged the question – what is wrong with this federal summation of treatments that required a response . . .

            Click to access gender-affirming-care-young-people-march-2022.pdf

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          1. RE: “Politics and medicine DON’T mix, nor should they.”

            I hope they DO mix, since politics is how citizens prevent government abuse.

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          2. Government abuse, sure. But we are talking MEDICINE, which should not be controlled by government.

            The ACA was vilified as being a government takeover of medicine and health care. Tat has been proven to be the lie it always was. Parental and medical decisions should be left to the parents and doctors.

            Fake fear mongering issue based on lies, misinformation and GOP BULLSHIT is what we have here.

            Liked by 1 person

        2. RE: “But since medical ethics are a major subject in the education of doctors, I would tend to believe that in their practices they strive to “do no harm” without being reminded by the likes of Governor DeSantis.”

          So, according to you, the Florida health department guidance is not needed because you say it is not needed.

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          1. It is not needed because the Hippocratic oath covers it and no government intervention is needed or wanted.

            The Florida Health Department is now led by a political toady to GOV DeSantis who has expressed anti-vax sentiments and has no business making decisions for the State or the citizens thereof.

            Liked by 2 people

          2. Unfortunately, government mixes advocacy with medical advice.

            Imagine the difference it would make if the parents of children seeking hormonal or surgical “gender affirmation” were fully informed.

            Would they still proceed if the physician told them that these treatments made irreversible changes in the body but there was an 80% chance that their child would no longer want to change their perceived gender by the time they were 18, but having blocked puberty earlier, they would never fully develop as their original gender.

            That is permanent harm that 80% of the time has no payoff.

            And even that 20% that still wants the change will be no happier for it.

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          3. Would they still proceed if the physician told them that these treatments made irreversible changes ”…

            You seem to be saying that doctors are not fully informing parents or patients of the effects of decisions made. If that is the case, then the ethics of medicine are being violated. There is no need for a policy guidance from the state.

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          4. RE: “It is not needed because the Hippocratic oath covers it and no government intervention is needed or wanted.”

            You are saying that a policy which is consistent with the Hippocratic Oath is neither needed or wanted because of the Hippocratic Oath?

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          5. A policy is not required. Medical ethics covers the bases. And as we have been reminded numerous times, the market can solve the problem.

            Keep the government out of Social Security and Medicare. NAd while yo’r eat it, keep them out of PERSONAL DECISIONS best left to doctors and patients.

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          6. But the government is not keeping out of it.

            The CDC is openly advocating early intervention in gender dysphoria, and threatening doctors who resist.

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          7. “That is permanent harm that 80% of the time has no payoff.”

            I know logic is not a strong point with you people but come on man.

            You are assuming that 100% of the children who present with signs of gender dysphoria get these irreversible treatments and thus harm is done to 80% of them. Baloney.

            The reality is that the psychiatrists and physicians who treat such patients are well-aware that these are extreme measures and they do not undertake the lightly and CERTAINLY they do not undertake them without extensive counselling and providing full information to the patients and – if children – to their parents.

            Liked by 1 person

          8. RE: “A policy is not required.”

            Actually, it is. Policies are created so that public health authorities can enforce them. Also, in our system, the enforcement of federal policies doesn’t automatically flow down to the state and local levels.

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          9. …”the enforcement of federal policies doesn’t automatically flow down to the state and local levels.”

            Wrong, Kemosabe. Federal policies TRUMP state and local on a regular basis.

            “Policies are created so that public health authorities can enforce them.”

            But the judge just said they don’t (wrt masking on public transit.). Can’t have it both ways.

            Liked by 1 person

          10. RE: “Wrong, Kemosabe. Federal policies TRUMP state and local on a regular basis.”

            Well, masked man, check your Constitution. Specifically the 10th Amendment.

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          11. The 9th allows the government to intervene to protect rights not explicitly listed, it does not authorize government to add restrictions in any circumstance.

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          12. So, If I believe it is best to treat my child with HCQ if they get COVID, the Feds should step in and protect my right to make that decision.

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          13. HCQ was proven to have limited effectiveness in numerous studies. Peer reviewed studies. therefore, they have already determined that the choice was not a safe alternative and did not approve it.

            Good attempt, but you chose badly.

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          14. Still, what you asserted was the right of the parent(which I generally agree with) to make medical decisions for their child.

            But there is a great deal more support for HCQ than for puberty blockers or early surgery for gender dysmorphia.

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          15. Treating a child who has a very medically curable disease with only prayer, for example, creates a conundrum for a society like ours. The same thinking that condemns abortion in cases of genetic malformations might accept that same “abortion” of a birthed child by withholding medical treatment in accordance with parental wishes and beliefs.

            Parents don’t raise children in isolation in our nation. We expect certain norms of healthcare, education and behavior to be taught in the home. That protects both the child and society.

            Perhaps your HCQ regimen won’t harm the child, but the principle needs to be carefully evaluated and balanced to avoid the extremes.

            Liked by 2 people

  3. Why do Democrats try to describe permanently severe self or parental approved mutilation of the human body to pretend to be what you can never be as something noble? Does left wing perversion and mental illness have no boundries?

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      1. That’s the point, they don’t want to be what they are, they want to play out fantasy of what they are not and expect everyone else to enable and cheer such sick perversion including innocent little girls and boys. Why do you people think it’s ok to subject children to complete smut? If you want to throw “closet queer” around, take a look in the mirror…

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        1. …”they don’t want to be what they are,”…

          Who are YOU to tell someone who they are?

          You are a self-loathing pariah. You have zero idea of how to leave people the fuck alone. Nothing that is decided by your next door neighbor wrt to his/or her choice of how to live has any effect on how you want to leave.

          Closet queer is an insult to those who have not yet felt the freedom to be who they are. I apologize to them. You are hiding behind the bravado and pretending to be some manly man who tans his balls because Tucker Carlson found some Male Goop-like con artist to sell the idea it will make you more of a man.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. When a boy in a dress barges into my daughter ‘s bathroom, HE doesnt want to just be left alone in private to play out his jck fantasy world.with all of this mindless babble and name calling, get some psychiatric help. You d e spirately need it.

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          2. And when has this happened in real life?

            As far as the name calling goes, when you stop using “stupid” , “sick”, “pervert” and the several other epithets you have used, I’ll consider it. Until then, you appear to be a self-loathing closeted gay man with voilent tendencies.

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          3. “I don’t have time to google it for you, but a trans woman in a Federal prison has impregnated two fellow inmates.”

            You really think that incident adds a drop of validity to Mr. Smith’s bigotry and phobic ravings? Really?

            From the far right wing NY Post. . .

            “The unidentified jailbirds became pregnant at the Edna Mahan Correctional Facility after engaging in ‘consensual sexual relationships with another incarcerated person,’ the state Department of Corrections told NJ.com.”

            You are familiar with the word “consensual,” right?

            Liked by 1 person

          4. “Not precisely the same. . .”

            Well, that much is true.

            But the idea that a man interested in raping and molesting women needs to dress like a woman or be willing to undergo hormone treatments and surgery in order to get at them in the ladies’ room is patently absurd on its face. It is pure ignorance and you do yourself no credit for not calling it out for what it is.

            Liked by 1 person

          5. Do you think schools require the hormones and surgery in order for the person to claim trans status? Or do they merely need to ‘identify’ as their preferred gender?

            But even if we assume that people are honest about gender dysphoria, we still should not be doing surgery or giving hormone treatments to young people when there is an 80% chance the dysphoria is temporary.

            The changes made to the body are permanent.

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          6. So, in your mind there is a real problem of horny teenage boys spending their lives as girls so they can walk unimpeded into the girls’ toilets (where each girl has a private stall to do her business). Well, thank God the Republican Party is all over this problem!

            You keep quoting that 80% used by Florida as if it is important. It isn’t. It ignores the fact that actual practicing physicians do not get out the scalpel at the first sign of gender dysphoria. Before anything that has a permanent effect is done there is a long period of counseling and non-permanent changes.

            More importantly, 80% figure is based on junk science that had been debunked long before the political hacks at Florida Department of Public Health used it as a basis for their contrarian guidance. The problems with that study are described here. . .

            https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-end-of-the-desistance_b_8903690

            Liked by 1 person

          7. …” a real problem of horny teenage boys spending their lives as girls so they can walk unimpeded into the girls’ toilets (where each girl has a private stall to do her business).”

            If that were the case, the parents are to be held accountable for the actions of their children. See Michigan school shooting suspect and his parents for reference.

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      1. RE: “Does left wing perversion and mental illness have no boundries?

        No”

        Could not resist getting down in the muck with Mr. Smith, I see. But, a point of order, we are not discussing “perversion.” We are discussing a recognized illness.

        I am tempted, having been accused of perversions, to bring up the man-crush many of you exhibit for bare-chested homicidal tyrants and your adulation of the well-documented serial sex offender Donald Trump. But I won’t.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. RE: “But, a point of order, we are not discussing “perversion.'”

          Mr. Smith is correct to draw attention to left wing political perversion with respect to gender dysphoria.

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          1. Interesting that you refer to left wing political perversion while talking about individual choice.

            Both sides of your mouth must get tired from talking out of them at the same time.

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          2. Uh, what is “political perversion?”

            If there is such a thing, it would be the attempt to treat children with gender dysphoria as cannon fodder in a culture war started by a political party that has nothing to offer but shitty ideas, shitty leaders, and a shitty record of obstructionism and failure.

            What started this particular skirmish in your culture war? A non-controversial summation of the problem of gender dysphoria, the dangers to life and mental health that go with it, and the range of treatments that have been used prepared by the federal government. Trying to turn that document into a divisive political issue – that might be “perversion.” It is certainly deplorable.

            Liked by 1 person

          3. I would be happy with leaving the decision to the parents, provided the parents and the child were properly informed of the realities.

            That includes making sure they understand that there is an 80% chance they will lose the desire to transition by the time they are 18 and that the damage done by hormone and puberty blocker therapy is irreversible.

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          4. RE: “Uh, what is ‘political perversion?'”

            In this case, your opinions would be the poster child. You seem to think the state of Florida has no right to establish a formal policy wrt to medical care for gender dysphoria. Your position is perverse because it is anti-democratic, not to mention anti-constitutional.

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          5. RE: “Interesting that you refer to left wing political perversion while talking about individual choice.”

            I haven’t talked about individual choice. If you want to wear a dress, be my guest.

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          6. Not in this instance, but you cry the Libertarian creed about individual choice until it applies to something you disagree with.

            Those so blind to their own hypocrisy in life….

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          7. “You seem to think the state of Florida has no right to establish a formal policy wrt to medical care for gender dysphoria”

            I said no such thing. These political hacks are free to offer any documents they want. What I actually said was that this was a POLITICAL STUNT and not a bona fide attempt to advance public health.

            Liked by 1 person

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