Eleven minutes of video cannot capture anything close to comprehensive truths but can — as in this case — remind us to be skeptical of stories we hear.
Kherson Refugees Reject Western Media Claims of Russia “Kidnapping” Them
Published
Tidewater News and Opinion Forum
A place for civil discussion of the events of the day for Tidewater residents without the limitations imposed by media forums.
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Obviously there are people living in Ukraine who are sympathetic with Russia. Those people should have moved to Russia decades ago, not made war on their Ukrainian neighbors.
” . . . remind us to be skeptical of stories we hear”
There is no one here in greater need of that advice than you.
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RE: “Those people should have moved to Russia decades ago, not made war on their Ukrainian neighbors.”
Are you accusing the women and children in the video of making war?
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“Are you accusing the women and children in the video of making war?”
I think my point was pretty clear. As the USSR fell apart there were people living in Ukraine who wished they were living in Russia. Their only moral solution was to leave Ukraine and move to Russia. Instead, at Putin’s instigation, they made the immoral choice – war on their neighbors. Now some of them are suffering. Too bad.
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RE: “I think my point was pretty clear.”
Yes. You think anyone who doesn’t behave as you desire deserves to suffer.
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“Yes. You think anyone who doesn’t behave as you desire deserves to suffer.”
You cannot answer relevant points so you start throwing out person invective. Pathetic.
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If the shoe fits, wear it. YOU are the one who claimed to know the “only moral solution.”
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And yet, leaving for Russia WAS the only moral choice for those who wanted to be living in Russia. Making war on your neighbors was not.
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Sure, people who don’t like being discriminated against should leave their homes, businesses and farms to those who oppress them and get out of the way.
By the same token, those who do not value freedom of speech or the right to keep and bear arms should move to Canada.
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And yet, the fact remains, Donbas has NEVER had an ethnic Russian majority and the people who took up arms against the legal government of Ukraine had no moral or legal basis to do what they tried to do.
As for your smarmy little dig, it makes no sense. Gun-loving jackasses are a small minority in this country. Kind of like ethnic Russians in Ukraine. If they are unhappy then THEY should leave – not the majority. But then, who would want them. Certainly not Canada.
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Odd how that referendum came out then,
That tiny minority of gun owners is now better than 90 million.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/democrats-ramp-gun-control-supermajority-us-think-gun-ownership-good
But like Climate Alarmism, Zelensky worship is now a religion in the left.
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“That tiny minority of gun owners is now better than 90 million.”
Uh, I did not refer to gun owners. I referred to the tiny minority of “gun-loving jackasses” – the kind of people who tell other people to leave the country if they are not happy accepting gun slaughter as the price of liberty. I am among that 90 million gun owners. I have been since I turned 10. Most of us in that category want seriously improved gun control.
“Odd how that referendum came out then…”
Not really. The opposition having been murdered or driven from their homes and the ballots distributed, observed and counted by Russian soldiers. Not odd at all. Here is a fun fact – Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
You talk a lot about projecting. You give an example of it with your comment about “Zelensky worship.” Admiration and respect is not “worship.”
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“Zelensky worship is now a religion in the left.”
Yeah, and gun worship remains the religion of the right.
I really find it amazing that someone who proclaims a love of liberty cannot find anything positive to say about the leader of a country fighting for its very existence and the liberty of the people.
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Because they are only fighting for the liberty of some of the people, for a decade they have been actively denying the liberty of the Donetsk.
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“Because they are only fighting for the liberty of some of the people, for a decade they have been actively denying the liberty of the Donetsk.”
Donbas has never had an ethnic Russian majority. I have given you chapter and verse on this several times. Do basic, provable facts mean nothing to you? Nothing at all?
I grant you there is a minority of people in Donbas who would rather that their area be part of Russia. Do they have the right to make war on the legitimate government to get what they want? Is it oppression to fight back?
We have a lot of armed shitheads who wish they were not part of the United States. If they started murdering officials to make their point, would it be oppression to suppress them?
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You keep making that claim, but you have never supported it. Because you say so is not proof.
Short of checking DNA it would be hard to prove ethnicity, but the majority in the Donetsk are Russian speakers.
The majority there sought independence from Ukraine long before Russia invaded.
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Majority are Russian speakers. That does not mean much in a country where many, if not most, Ukrainians speak both languages. Zelensky spoke Russian first as a child.
That does not mean Ukrainians want to ruled by Russia, no matter where they live.
Millions of Americans in the Southwest and along the Mexican border are bilingual. Millions of Hispanics probably speak Spanish more easily than English. Do they want to secede to a Mexico?
Minsk 2 was signed February 12, Russia invaded a couple of weeks later. Who broke the agreement? The army was already massed on the borders. Good faith by Russians. I think not.
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“You keep making that claim, but you have never supported it.”
Yes, I have supported it. More than once. You have just tuned it out because it does not match what you want to believe. I will repeat it once again.
According to the 2001 census – the last to survey ethnicity – ethnic Ukrainians form 58% of the population of Luhansk Oblast and 56.9% of Donetsk Oblast. Ethnic Russians are less than 40% in each oblast.
https://web.archive.org/web/20111217151026/http://2001.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/results/general/nationality/
Many loyal Ukrainians speak Russian. Being a Russian speaker does not make you a Russian. One obvious example is President Zelenskyy who is a native Russian speaker.
“The majority there sought independence from Ukraine long before Russia invaded.”
No, they did not. That smacks as another of your MANY made up facts. If I am wrong, prove it.
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“Sure, people who don’t like being discriminated against should leave their homes, businesses and farms to those who oppress them and get out of the way.”
You mean like the Great Migration?
So better to force the majority to live in a Russian vassal state. You just don’t grasp the concept that Ukraine hates Russia. Stalin killed millions, Nazis killed some more, then Russia ruled them again in decades of failed Soviet brutality.
Why should a minority force Ukrainians to rejoin the Putin dictatorship?
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Russia doesn’t want Ukraine as a whole, It wanted the Crimea and it wanted self-rule respected in the Donbas.
But the Azov wouldn’t near of it.
Ukraine only had to abide by the Minsk II accords, but it wouldn’t do that.
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“But the Azov wouldn’t near of it.”
Facts are so inconvenient. Especially for people swallowing Russian propaganda. The Azov Brigade was formed AFTER Russian mercenaries and surrogate militias had attacked the legal government and set up the two puppet republics.
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“Russia doesn’t want Ukraine as a whole”
Right. Russia wants Ukraine to no longer exist.
And it was Russia who broke the accords first. Inconvenient truths you continue to ignore.
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how did Russia violate the Minsk II accords?
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Invading two weeks later.
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Had Ukraine met its obligations?
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Had Russia already massed its troops on the border? That isn’t diplomacy in the normal sense. It is diplomacy under the threat of invasion.
INVASION! That is what happened and you continue to make excuses to justify it.
Why is it you cannot in any way shape or form admit that what PUTIN has done is illegal, immoral and unjustified? You keep blaming Ukraine for trying to live in peace, trying to solve their IINTERNAL issues in a moral and legal manner. Would you justify Mexico for invading the US for mistreatment of Spanish SPEAKING people?
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“ Pullout of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, and also mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under OSCE supervision. Disarmament of all illegal groups.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements
Without this, the rest means nothing.
Icing on the cake:
“ At the summit, the Minsk participants briefed EU leaders about the talks. During the briefing, they said that President Putin had tried to delay the implementation of a ceasefire by ten days, so as to force Ukrainian troops in Debaltseve to surrender their positions. For his part, President Putin said that the Debaltseve defenders were encircled, and that the separatists expected them “to lay down their arms and cease resistance”.
Putin was going to sabotage any agreement that denied him a vassal state in Ukraine. We know he did not even consider Ukraine a sovereign nation. He so stated in one of his long speeches.
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There you go again, Len, with those pesky facts. But it’s all Biden’s fault. Don’t forget that.
If Biden hadn’t gone and won that election in 2020, then Putin would have had a “friend” (Useful idiot?) in the Oval Office and the West would have never come together to support a Democratic government in Ukraine.
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“Had Ukraine met its obligations?”
Yes.
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Maybe I’m hearing the woman in the video all wrong but it seems to me she’s saying the Russians didn’t “kidnap them,” but moved them out of the way of the oncoming battle. That would have been the proper thing to do. It would have also been an easy thing for Ukrainian forces to misunderstand.
Having said that… if Russia had not invaded Ukraine and occupied its territories, there would have been no battle to move away from.
Russia started this war. Anyone who believes Russia did it for the love of Russians living in Ukraine should probably be campaigning to kick all Russians out of the United States lest Putin invade the US over concern for Russians living here.
It is darkly amusing that people who scream about US elections being rigged are the same people who totally trust a referendum held in an occupied territory, with ballots collected by armed soldiers, saying the occupied people wanted to stay occupied.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. It’s that simple.
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“If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. It’s that simple.”
Well said.
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