A good summary of the realist perspective on how the 2022 war in Ukraine started.
Missing are the details of Russia’s original invasion of Ukraine in 2014. Actually, invasion is the wrong word. Russia’s early engagement in the Donbas was somewhat like the U.S. early engagement in the Vietnam war. That is, Russia at first provided materiel and advisory support to an indigenous Donbas resistance against Kiev. This later escalated to providing boots on the ground to support the Donbas local militias. One could say that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine back in 2014 was by invitation, but this nuance is ignored by many commentators.
Tidewater News and Opinion Forum 
Realist?
Not too ridiculous.
So a separatist militia – made up of Wagner mercenaries paid for by Russia – cried out to Russia for help in their LOSING fight. That makes it invasion by invitation. Patently absurd. Ukraine has recognized international borders. They were recognized by Russia in that agreement where Ukraine turned over its nukes in exchange for the promise of no military attack now broken by Putin.
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RE: “So a separatist militia – made up of Wagner mercenaries paid for by Russia – cried out to Russia for help in their LOSING fight.”
What losing fight are you referring to? It appears to me that the Donbas separatists at last have achieved their objectives with the referendum and annexation into Russia.
As for the “promise of no military attack now broken by Putin,” why do you ignore the 14,000 Donbas residents killed by Ukrainian forces since 2014?
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“What losing fight are you referring to?”
You don’t call in foreign soldiers and mercenaries if you are winning. Duh!
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Why not?
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“Why not?”
Because you don’t need them.
Because you give up power and authority.
Because your “victory” becomes tainted.
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“ By no means were these victims all “killed by the Ukrainians.” According to the UN, 10,900 victims were soldiers, of whom 4,400 were Ukrainians and 6,500 pro-Russian combatants of or on behalf of the separatist pseudo-republics. Civilian victims were between 3,400 and 3,500. The latter were in turn not all victims of attacks and of drones and rockets launched by Ukraine against the pseudo-republics. In fact, a part died in the portions of the oblasts of Luhansk and Donetsk that remained under Ukrainian control during attacks by separatists.”
https://mercatornet.com/did-ukraine-kill-14000-pro-russians-and-civilians-in-donbass/78793/
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Right. The 10,900 soldiers and 3,400 civilians were residents of the Donbas, as stated.
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The Russians were probably not. The separatist movement was fueled by Russia, with Russians. The Russian soldiers that came in to help were Russian.
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RE: “The Russian soldiers that came in to help were Russian.”
How many? Of the 10,900 soldiers killed, how many were Russian citizens, how many Ukrainian citizens? Does it even matter, given Ukraine’s documented practice of shelling civilian populations?
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“…given Ukraine’s documented practice of shelling civilian populations?”
We’ll that about wraps this up.
You are Putin’s lackey passing on his propaganda.
Personally I have a bit more trust in the dozens of media on the ground from all over the world plus NATO governments assessments.
My choice.
Yours? Putin.
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RE: “You are Putin’s lackey passing on his propaganda.”
Ukraine’s practice of shelling civilians is documented by the OSCE, as stated in the source article, written by an American and appearing on an American web site.
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Actual relevant facts are wasted on people like Mr. Roberts as your further attempts at an adult conversation confirm.
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The only rational explanation I can think of for our involvement in Ukraine is that they have something incriminating on Biden that puts him under their thumb,
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“The only rational explanation I can think of for our involvement in Ukraine is that they have something incriminating on Biden that puts him under their thumb”
I really doubt that is true. But if it is, you are really, really stupid.
And it makes me wonder, what does Ukraine have on the 86 Senators and the 368 Representative who voted to approve major aid for Ukraine back in May?
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And here is the really interesting part. No one, not a single person, knows about it except Biden and Zelensky.
No one in Ukraine, Russia, the Pentagon, the White House, Hollywood, Finland, Germany, France, Turkey, Mar a Lago…no one.
Why don’t you pass this on to Tucker and get a scoop?
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I don’t listen to Tucker so I have no idea what he would want.
And thousands of people could know, and it still wouldn’t show up in the news, Even FOX is beating the war drums every day.
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“And thousands of people could know, and it still wouldn’t show up in the news.”
Really. With all the news sources today? Be realistic.
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BTW the DOJ announced through a leak that Hunter might be indicted. A month before the election, too.
Deep state? Or is it only against the right wing?
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Don’t think of it as 1 month before the election, think of it as 3 months before the oversight committee changes hands.
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Such desperate fertilizing commentary.
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Well, by all means tell me what good, for the US, can come from this?
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A peaceful Europe is good for ALL of the world. This country included.
As far as having something on Biden or thinking that Russia invaded Ukraine on Biden’s request; THAT is the fertilizer.
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Invasion by invitation?
Unless it was an invitation by the government in Kyiv, it was not an invitation.
Russia completely disregarded the treaty in 1994 to leave Ukraine and its borders alone in exchange for nukes.
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RE: “Russia completely disregarded the treaty in 1994 to leave Ukraine and its borders alone in exchange for nukes.”
That’s debatable. Under the Budapest Memoranda of 1994 Russia agreed to respect Ukraine’s independence and sovereignty within borders that existed at the time. Such an agreement becomes unenforceable if parts of Ukraine separate from Ukraine.
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Kyiv is pretty much where it was in 1994.
The Russian backed separatists had not changed a thing. If so, why were they still killing Ukrainians with Russian soldiers and equipment.
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RE: “Kyiv is pretty much where it was in 1994.”
Crimea and the Donbas are not.
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They are still there. Look on a map.
I know. Because Putin marched in and said “this is mine, mine, mine…waa waa.”
Hmm, we have a recent president that thinks the same way.
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RE: “They are still there. Look on a map.”
They are no longer within the borders of Ukraine. Help yourself if you want to pretend they are. It will take WWIII to restore Ukraine’s 1994 borders.
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Who says they are not within the borders of Ukraine?
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You are exhibiting the logic of an imbecile.
Russia agreed “to respect Ukraine’s independence and sovereignty within borders that existed at the time.” But now after they have grabbed lands within those borders by armed force you say they have not violated the agreement because the borders have moved.
Good grief. That is profoundly dumb.
“The borders that existed at the time” have NOT moved. And there would be no possible question of where the borders are now if Russia had not violated that nuclear agreement in the first instance by using military force to seize Ukrainian sovereign territory.
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RE: “Who says they are not within the borders of Ukraine?”
I do, based on the expressed wishes of the residents of Crimea and the four oblasts, plus the fact that Russia is defending the new borders created by the annexations. These represent de jure and de facto separation of the territories from Ukraine.
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RE: “‘The borders that existed at the time’ have NOT moved.”
Of course they have. Russia never “seized” anything. Russia supported one side in a civil war, then asked the people if they wanted to join Russia. Anyone who wants to contest this outcome is free to go to war against Russia, but Ukraine has nearly lost its ability to make the challeng on its own, and the U.S./Nato are nearly out of military supplies Ukraine can use.
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“Russia supported one side in a civil war, “…
Factually inaccurate. Russia STARTED the civil war in the regions in order to be able to do exactly what they did. Offer up SHAM referenda in those regions after those loyal to UKRAINE left, wee killed, or disappeared into camps in Russia.
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…”Ukraine has nearly lost its ability to make the challeng on its own, “…
Yet they keep pushing and pushing and pushing and Russia forces keep rushing and rushing and rushing for safety.
I know you don’t believe it because Putin or his supportive useful idiots in your choice of sources, hasn’t told you to, but those are the facts as reported by independent RELIABLE news sources on the ground.
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Here is an idea. You hate this country and love Putin. Why not declare your home to be part of Russia?
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Typical. When you can’t defend your own statements you resort to ad hominem.
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