If you want to know why the referenda that concluded in Ukraine on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved the choice to join Russia, you should explore reports of Ukrainian war crimes, as in this video. Dead bodies in the street in a non-military zone cannot easily be dismissed.
But I expect my moral “superiors” will do so.
Tidewater News and Opinion Forum 
Russia deliberately leveled dozens of towns in the east after it gave up its failed attempt for a quick regime change. Tens of thousands of civilians have been killed. But you think this incident is proof of something? Yeah, right.
We already know why the “referendum” went the way it did. Duh!
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RE: “Russia deliberately leveled dozens of towns in the east after it gave up its failed attempt for a quick regime change.”
Name one and tell us how you know it was not a legitimate military target.
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You prove that this Ukrainian shell or shells were not aimed at Russian military.
Russia’s brutal and genocidal strategy in Ukraine is a repeat of what they did in Chechnya. If you do not accept that, then there is no reasoning with you.
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So, you got nothing.
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“So, you got nothing.”
With all due respect, you are a Putin dupe. The nature of Russia’s attack in the east since its first attack on the whole country failed has been widely reported. The casualties, the cities levelled, the scorched earth. It is no secret. You yourself have predicted that Russia would grind Ukraine down with their overwhelming might. They tried. It, too, has a costly failure. Russia’s army is ruined.
So, I am not going to play. You can do your own research if you dare look outside of Russian propaganda.
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So, once again, nothing
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“So, once again, nothing”
Lame. I have not said anything about which there is any doubt. Your rhetorical trick of pretending a cite is need for everything you do not want to believe is getting worn out from overuse.
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RE: “The nature of Russia’s attack in the east since its first attack on the whole country failed has been widely reported.”
Yes, it has. Some of it in this Forum by me. As today, I have provided examples of Ukrainian war crimes which are routinely dismissed by people like you who cannot provide examples of Russian war crimes when challenged to do so.
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2022/09/22/new-mass-graves-found-in-ukraine-as-putins-atrocities-continue/?sh=112a96d858ba
And so on and so forth.
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RE: “And so on and so forth.”
You should read your own source more carefully. “Mass graves” does not automatically equal “atrocities,” as even the article admits.
I should note, too, that I believe I posted here in the Forum another video by Eva Bartlett that reported on the “mass graves” in Mariupol that Forbes mentions. Bartlett interviewed the grave diggers at the cemetary, who showed how every body was given a proper coffin and identified, where possible, on the grave marker. Hardly sounds like Russian atrocities in Mariupol in that video.
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Mass graves must be from COVID.
Mariupol is in Russian hands, so any reporting about how nice the Russians are is seriously suspect. But they still managed to flatten the city in the effort to capture a few hundred Ukrainians under a massive steel mill.
If you believe Putin, so be it.
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“As the U.N. Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine reported, they took testimonies from Ukrainians who said that snipers positioned on roofs “would just shoot fairly randomly at civilians.” In Bucha, the U.N. Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine recorded the unlawful killing of over 300 men, women and children.”
Now where does my link say mass graves do not equal atrocities.
It does say that identification of bodies can be difficult along with exact causes of death. It will take time. But that doesn’t excuse the discoveries of mass burial in cities that the Russian soldiers fled from. Or the expectation based on history, that mass graves will be revealed years, decades even, later.
(Interesting that the right wing debate method is to wait a few months, then deny everything that was happening. Like “tourists” at the Capitol.)
You have posted a handful of alleged atrocity reports by “independent journalists” who attributed them to Ukrainians. I seem to recall some have been refuted. Human Rights organizations have reported hundreds, if not thousands, of atrocities by Russians.
I don’t doubt there have been excesses by Ukrainian forces. They are in a battle for their very existence and things can go sideways. Yet, it is very obvious that you, and Don, with a few cheerleaders piping in are really rooting for Putin. After all, you spent several paragraphs denigrating Zelensky for not wearing suitable clothing. Picky crap, but also very revealing as to who you favor. Putin does wear a suit. Armani? Seville Row? Maybe, but he sits so far away from everyone who can tell. Is that important, however? You seem to think so.
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And the proof that Zelensky and Beelzebub are one is that olive tee shirt.
Putin wears a suit, so he is the most trustworthy.
Countless civilian targets flattened indiscriminately by Russian artillery and missiles. Targets not even near Donbas.
A referendum hastily called with ballots delivered by armed Russians.
You believe what you believe.
“ All this talk of blood and slaying has put me off my tea.” L. Carroll
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RE: “Countless civilian targets flattened indiscriminately by Russian artillery and missiles.”
If that were true, then “ballots delivered by armed Russians” would be useless.
You accuse me of false belief, but you refuse to see what is before your eyes.
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A fine example of the level of logic you bring to every discussion!
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Where is my logic wrong?
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“Where is my logic wrong?”
Okay . . .
You took the fact cited by Len “countless civilian targets flattened indiscriminately” to conclude there would be no one left for the armed Russians to deliver ballots to in Donbas.
First, “countless” is not a synonym for “All.” Duh!
Second, Russians did this all over Ukraine, not just in Donbas. Duh!
Third, Russia and its treasonous “separatist” allies controlled much of Donbas at the start of the invasion. They did not flatten the towns they controlled where only Russophiles dare remain to vote. Duh!
In other words, you “logic” was piss poor.
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RE: “You took the fact cited by Len “countless civilian targets flattened indiscriminately” to conclude there would be no one left for the armed Russians to deliver ballots to in Donbas.”
I showed that Mr. Rothman’s observations were inconsistent with one another. If it were true that Russia had targeted civilians, then the civilians would know it. And if the civilians knew it, then being coerced at gunpoint to vote for secession from Ukraine would not be sufficient to make the referenda appear legitimate.
Besides, neither of Mr. Rothman’s assertions are true. Countless civilian targets have not been flattened indiscriminately by Russia. You yourself cannot name even one. Nor is there any evidence that soldiers are pointing guns at civilians when they vote. On the contrary, as the video I posted shows, Ukraine is responsible for attacks on civilians.
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“I showed that Mr. Rothman’s observations were inconsistent with one another.”
No you did not. And they are not. I demonstrated just how flawed your “logic” is. And even when it is patiently and accurately explained you are either unwilling or unable to comprehend just how silly it actually is.
Russia’s offensive in the east consisted of moving slowly behind a rolling barrage of artillery and rockets. That fact has been reported by countless observers. You say I cannot name even one town or village subjected to that treatment. If I do will you shut the fuck up? Okay. I will. Here are not one, not two, but six. Mariupol, Volnovakha, Rubizhne, Popasna, Lyman and Sievierodonetsk. All completely destroyed with THOUSANDS of civilians dead.
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When soldiers shelter among civilians, in violation of the Geneva Conventions, they make it a military target, The responsibility for civilian casualties is on the shoulders of those who used them as human shields.
You might remember I pointed that out as it happened more than once early in the conflict.
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Well, Putin has his admirers. You have no idea what it like to defend a homeland. None.
Where were the Ukrainian soldier supposed to defend their cities? An appointed field at the Russians choosing? The Russians rushed right in to attack Kyiv with elite forces at night. For some reason they went right for the civilians.
You conveniently forget that Putin has no right at all to invade a sovereign nation to expand his empire. He wants lebensraum plain and simple. We know what happened last time a dictator wanted that. Of course the difference is that Putin’s military is crap, but he has nukes. So extortion is the act of desperation by a loser (hmmm, sounds familiar).
I think you are upset because Zelensky didn’t try to find all the Democrat servers for Trump.
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“You might remember I pointed that out as it happened more than once early in the conflict.”
I do remember that. But I put no weight on anything that you report as factual. You either make it up, “read it somewhere,” or simply parrot some lying liars. Your reputation taints everything you write whether you want to believe it or not.
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I said “you believe what you believe”. You used the word “false”.
Freudian slip much.
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Clever, but why comment on a post when you refuse to examine it?
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What’s to examine?
There have been numerous reports in various media about rounding up collaborators and casualties of friendly fire.
Civilians have always borne the brunt of wars. The scale of the Russian atrocities is huge compared to any transgressions by the defenders.
The point of Russian propaganda is the exact same as that of our right wing today. Find a few exceptions and magnify them as proof. Conspiracy 101.
That you believe it is your choice. It matters not what I write.
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RE: “The scale of the Russian atrocities is huge compared to any transgressions by the defenders.”
I have given you an example of a Ukrainian atrocity (not the first). What specific Russian atrocity can you cite?
RE: “The point of Russian propaganda is the exact same as that of our right wing today.”
The video I posted was created by a self-funded Canadian citizen. To call it “Russian propaganda” is to avoid the reality of what it documents.
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From WSJ:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-russia-graves-war-11664375474
Fresh mass graves opened, with some bound hands and signs of torture. About 400 bodies so far.
COVID kills in strange ways I would guess.
Or is this going to be a case like the racist jokes during the good old days in the Deep South.
“Damn N———-, stole more chain than he could swim with.”
“Damn Ukrainians tried to hide in a deep hole and got smothered.”
Some things just never change. And, yes, Putin is a butcher on a scale rarely seen, but remarkable when it is finally exposed.
But he seems well dressed, no?
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