There are those who imagine the neo-Nazi problem in Ukraine is comparable to the neo-Nazi problem in America. To wit, Ukrainian neo-Nazis may exist, but they are inconsequential in the same way that American neo-Nazis may exist, but they are inconsequential.
The source article suggests this perspective is plain wrong and probably just an effect of American media’s recently minted biases. In light of the evidence the source presents, I’m inclined to hold a less polite opinion.
Tidewater News and Opinion Forum 
I have to say it is pretty funny to see one of you people with his hair on fire about right-wing militias. Coming off your failed coup d’état and your adulation of the Putin patsy who tried it, your Antifa bona fides just don’t measure up.
Ukraine has fielded an army of maybe 250,000 or more depending on how many of its 900,000 reservists are active. The Azov battalion – which is now under the control of the government – has grown as Ukrainian patriots have rallied to the colors but it still numbers no more than 10,000. A tough, well-trained part of Ukraine’s resistance to Russian aggression, but a small part.
Are some of them hard-nosed Neo-Nazis? Almost certainly some of them are. So what?
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I have to say it is pretty funny to see one of you people who had hair on fire about neo-Nazis in Charlottesvile now pretending that neo-Nazis in Ukraine are no big deal.
Some of the links in the source article might help you out.
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Uh, the actual problem with those Neo-Nazis in Charlottesville was not their existence. We know they are out there. It was the respect and support they got from that same Putin patsy in the White House. THAT was a problem.
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The actual problem with those neo-Nazis in Ukraine is the respect and support they get from people like you.
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I respect people who put their life on the line to defend their country against a rapacious invader. It takes real courage.
I will go back to my original observation – your Antifa credentials are completely lacking. I therefore believe your newfound Anti-fascism is just evidence of how eager you are to support the fascist Putin who, by-the-way, makes the worst of Azov battalion seem like a choirboy in comparison.
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RE: “I respect people who put their life on the line to defend their country against a rapacious invader. It takes real courage.”
Yes. Of course that describes the German Nazis of WWII pretty well. If you respect them, no wonder you respect their counterparts in Ukraine.
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Neither Mr Roberts nor myself have ever supported Nazis, neo or otherwise. Your problem is that you do not see individuals, you only see parties and collectives.
If 100,000 people have a rally and a couple of dozen neo-Nazis show up uninvited, you presume it’s a rally of 100,000 Nazis.
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And if a few thousand ultra nationalists or neo-Nazis are in an army of a quarter million, that is all you see.
So let’s just say you basically described what passes for right wing “thinking” in our country today.
CRT…almost non-existent below college. Transgender issues…a tiny minority. One baker of wedding cakes…you know the rest.
You were the ones who were pushing that Ukraine was a Nazi state. Now that it turns out to be a huge, gross exaggeration, you still keep up the narrative.
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Where did I or anyone else say that Ukraine was a Nazi State?
We have pointed out that the Ukraine has allowed a Nazi paramilitary group to operate independently and conduct pogroms against ethnic Russians in the Donbas for a decade.
That does not make Ukraine Nazi, but it shows that Ukraine is unable to control its oligarchs in parts of the country.
CRT is not taught in grade schools but teachers have been indoctrinated in the philosophy and implement it in classes, Further, it pervades the Democrat establishment in government and influences everything from contracting to health care.
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“CRT is not taught in grade schools but teachers have been indoctrinated in the philosophy”
“Indoctrinated in the philosophy?”
You mean some educated people know history? Just kidding. I know you don’t mean that.
You mean that poor oppressed white men just don’t have a chance to get ahead anymore because of all those uppity people demanding equity.
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All men are created equal, but that does not entitle them to equity.
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Wow, you have gone off the deep end. Russia
has created the Donbas debacle with support for separatists and its own military. It invaded Crimea in 2014. Was that for a pogrom too?
CRT is very low on most voters minds except when egged on by the right wing panderers.
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/29/1094782769/parent-poll-school-culture-wars
“”It really is a pretty vocal minority that is hyper-focused on parental rights and decisions around curriculum,” observes Mallory Newall of Ipsos, which conducted the poll.
Just 18% of parents say their child’s school taught about gender and sexuality in a way that clashed with their family’s values; just 19% say the same about race and racism; and just 14% feel that way about U.S. history.”
The rest of your idea that it pervades everything is just sour grapes and victim complex.
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It is a documented fact that when vaccines were scarce, equity was placed ahead of saving lives, The CDC Vaccine advisory committee said so in its recommendation.
CRT kills, By tens of thousands.
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CRT or the fact that African Americans were at greater risk of serious complications and dying than most Americans. Reasons were many fold, but access to healthcare in general, before and after COVID hit, is lower in that community of Americans.
Tough cookies, me first.
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In its own presentation, the FDA Vaccines and Biological Products Advisory Committee stated that minimizing hospitalizations and deaths required vaccinating older people first, but that minorities were underrepresented in that group. It was decided that equity was more important than saving the maximum number of lives.
Understand that because if that decision, more Black elders died too,
It was pure political pandering at the cost of tens of thousands of lives.
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Look, I get that some people think that being Black in America is a huge advantage.
That kind of thinking is not new. Greenwood, et.al., are examples of that.
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You are really addicted to fighting straw men. That is not what I said at all.
CRT is being injected into everything government. It has no place in medicine. Medical decisions must be guided by preserving useful life and nothing else.
Injecting CRT into the vaccine distribution killed tens of thousands, and because of comorbidities, it killed Black elders at a disproportionate rate.
How is that helping American Blacks?
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I disagree. But what else is new. If I did agree, there would be no debate, just cheerleading🤹♂️
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…”conduct pogroms against ethnic Russians in the Donbas”
the military doing its duty to protect against Kremlin-backed separatists is NOT a pogrom; it is defense of the country form enemies within.
Your misunderstanding and misstatements about the Eastern part of Ukraine is inaccurate.
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Explain Charlottesville. Particularly, the night before on the campus of UVA.
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Explain what?
When I practiced in Colonial Heights I had patients who grew beards year round for their roles as Civil War reenactors. Some played exclusively Confederates and some exclusively Yankees, and some had both sets of uniforms so they could cover whatever parts were needed. And accurate uniform costs hundreds of dollars. Many of the wives had nurse and camp follower outfits. It was as big a deal there as the Navy is here.
They were nice guys and not Nazis. They knew every detail of every Civil War battle. It was a passion that had nothing to do with race,
Those are the ‘good people’ Trump spoke of at Charlottesville. For them it was like Nazis showing up in their church,
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A swing and a miss.
I wanted you to explain the full on neo-Nazi protest in Charlottesville the night before the rally. You just basically said it was akin to a bunch of Civil War reenactors.
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No, I am saying the ‘good people’ Trump referred to were not Nazis and they were as upset by the co-option of their rally as anyone.
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Unite the Right rally, organized by Jason Kessler, a rabid White supremacist, was never about Lee’s statue. That was a pretext. “Jews will not replace us” was the battle cry from the beginning.
So it was more a case of some history buffs infiltrating a neo-Nazi rally, not the other way around. That is, if there were any actual history buffs at all.
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I know of no way to support or refute your speculation on the relative numbers. But it doesn’t matter, Trump’s comment that there were good people there was accurate.
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So you do refute. How do you know it was accurate then?
Kessler is a known supremacist and the rally was “Unite the Right”, not “Save Lee”.
Hundreds of torch bearers shouting Nazi slogans the night before give a hint?
I stand by my assertion by virtue of compelling evidence.
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Trump said there were both Nazis and good people there, and condemned the Nazis.
What was incorrect?
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“Good people”.
Why would good people go to a neo-Nazi rally?
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Because that was not the rally they went to.
You seem to be under the impression that anyone who disagrees with you must be evil.
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Don’t be silly.
We’re there two rallies?
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“You seem to be under the impression that anyone who disagrees with you must be evil”
You talking to Len … or YOURSELF?
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…”the ‘good people’ Trump referred to were not Nazis ”
He specifically stated “ON BOTH SIDES”. SO which side were the Nazis in Charlottesville on the night before?
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Both sides referred to removing the statue or not.
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I’m not sure who is more mixed up at this point; you today, or Trump before.
And you deflection from the question I asked is noteworthy.
Explain the Neo-Nazi, khaki wearing, tiki-torch bearing imbeciles chanting old Nazi battle cries at the University of Virginia the night before the Unite the Right rally … which as Len has pointed out, had zip to do with protecting a statue of Robert E. Lee.
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History buffs defended the statue, based on their regard for the history of the war, Had it been a statue of Ulysses S Grant, they would have objected as well.
Neo Nazis jumped on the issue.
But the motives are different.
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The permit for the rally was for Kessler. Where do you get the idea that it was by history buffs.
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Again you avoid answering the question. Apparently you have no plausible answer so you keep talking around the issue.
I really am surprised you were not more successful as a politician. You have the tap dance down to a science.
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Well then state the question so I can figure out what you want
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From an earlier request to you: “I wanted you to explain the full on neo-Nazi protest in Charlottesville the night before the rally.”
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Explain it? They are Nazis, it’s what they do
That does not change the fact that there were also people protesting the removal of a historic statue who were not Nazis.
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THE NIGHT BEFORE!??!
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The night before was not the event Trump commented on.
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“Neither Mr Roberts nor myself have ever supported Nazis, neo or otherwise. Your problem is that you do not see individuals, you only see parties and collectives.”
Putin is a Nazi in fact if not in name. You support him. And so does Mr. Roberts.
Enough said. I do not need to go into your constant trashing of the Antifa movement (where a few thugs out of millions is all YOU see), your minimizing the fascist sedition of January 6th, your often expressed hatred for democracy, or your trying to spin away the aid and comfort for Neo-Nazis coming from Trump.
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RE: “Putin is a Nazi in fact if not in name.”
That’s a pretty good example of seeing only parties and collectives.
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“That’s a pretty good example of seeing only parties and collectives.”
Whatever it is, it is not that. I am labeling a single individual whose entire career is based on violence, intimidation, corruption, theft, lies and murder. At the peak of his career, he is a war criminal. And you people support him. Deplorable!
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RE: “Whatever it is, it is not that.”
Of course it is. You are labeling a single individual with a group identity. You do the same to Dr. Tabor and me every time you use the phrase “you people.” Deplorable!
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A corrupt, homicidal dictator surrounded by oligarchs who fuel the economy. Sounds like Nazis to me.
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RE: “Sounds like Nazis to me.”
Perhaps you should read some history. The relevant topic: Operation Barbarossa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa
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Look, a dictator surrounded by oligarchs is just
that. Hitler thought Slavs were just more untermenschen.
Putin is a dictator surrounded by oligarchs. He stole his own country blind.
If you want to get very picky about dictatorial technique, go ahead.
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RE: “Look, a dictator surrounded by oligarchs is just that.”
So you say, but a dictator surrounded by oligarchs is not Naziism. The challenge for you is to grasp that Russia regards its military defeat of the Nazis in WWII as one of its greatest patriotic events. To call Putin a Nazi is imbecilic.
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Operation Barbarossa.
Stalin was a Nazi too. Every bit as bad as Hitler. Maybe even worse. Ask the 20 million Ukrainians he murdered.
What is “imbecilic” is someone of very low intellect who is unable to see past labels.
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Yes, but to a political prisoner does it make much difference if the leader that put him in prison wears a cropped mustache or rides bare chested on a horse?
Hitler was a dictator who revered German myths and racial purity as an ultra-nationalist. He wanted to expand German territory. Putin has already described the greater glory of Russia’s history that must include Ukraine, he wants to purge his nation of “undesirables” (“midges” to be spit out). He is also an ultra-nationalist. And he wants to expand his territory.
They both favored wealthy industrialists so long as they toed the line.
You are making distinctions with little, if any, differences. The debatable nuances are for selling the masses, but dictatorial actions are eerily similar.
Stalin? Communist? Sure, it was part of the pitch to keep power. Killing 20 million Ukrainians by forced famine might not sit well with Ukraine folks. I think part of the real patriotism over surrender in this case is something apologists for Russian aggression don’t grasp.
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Stalin was not a Nazi, he was a socialist.
That’s equally bad, but different.
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And I seem to recall that you reminded us all that Nazis were, in fact, socialists. National Socialist Party German Workers Party.
Fascists were based on the idea of rods in a bundle as being stronger than one individual, as you have also pointed out.
Both parties were run by gangsters, just like Russia has been described.
“ As IMR trustee, businessman, and philanthropist Leonid Nevzlin points out in his analysis of Putin’s 20 years in power, the result of his rule is the transformation of Russia into a mafia state.”
https://imrussia.org/en/opinions/3067-the-result-of-20-years-of-putin-russia-as-a-mafia-state
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We were talking about Stalin, not Putin.
Nazism is a nationalist subset of socialism. Stalin was a one-worlder.
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So this makes a difference in the war in Europe today?
Russia makes no pretense of being anything other than a mafia state with oil.
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It makes a difference if you bring up Stalin
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Stalin was a thug.
Putin is a thug.
Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians.
Putin hasn’t gotten there yet, but he has killed 10’s if not 100’s thousands and made refugees out of millions throughout his illustrious career as a mobster with an army and secret police.
To all the dead, maimed, displaced, and imprisoned, does it really make much difference with your fine distinctions?
You and other Putin apologists are dodging the real problem by parsing the finer points of one dictatorial bastard against another.
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Would it surprise you that most of the refugees fleeing Ukraine are going to Russia? For safety from the Ukrainian and Azov forces
Refugees
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Would it surprise you that the story is probably BS. Thousands of Ukrainians have been forced into Russia by the Russian army. “Filtration camps”, as used for Chechnya, were for indoctrination and selection looking for dissidents. About 10%-12% were sent to Russia after the invasion, around 600,000+ out of the 5.5+ millions going elsewhere, but mostly to Poland.
You just won’t let go of the fantasy that Nazis were running Donbas. Like I said before, our Nazis, disguised as “patriot” gangs probably outnumbered the nationalist folks in the Ukraine military. Both in and out of our own military.
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2022/03/19/millions-ukrainian-refugees-fleeing-where-they-going-ukraine-war/7034809001/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Ukrainian_refugee_crisis
True, about a million went to Russia from Donbas in the 8 years before the invasion. Voluntarily or not, we may never know.
But your sources are impeccable, so please share.
Unless you dodge by saying I just denigrate your cites.
Your call.
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BTW, there are unconfirmed reports that Putin is stepping down temporarily for cancer surgery, turning control over to a lacky.
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Is the devil you know…?
My guess is that most Russian power brokers, oligarchs, would not shed tears if Putin died.
Wars are never started by the average citizens, BTW. Goring made that observation. He then said all a leader has to do is invent a threat and impugn the patriotism of the doubters.
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https://nypost.com/2022/04/01/vladimir-putins-reported-cancer-checkups-and-antler-blood-baths/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17793192/vladimir-putin-cancer/
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RE: “The debatable nuances are for selling the masses, but dictatorial actions are eerily similar.”
In that case, you might as well use your words carefully. If all dictators are dictatorial, there is no point in calling them Nazis, too.
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It seems it has become too easy to equate dictatorships and authoritarian regimes as “Nazis”; it seems almost lazy to use the term because the n-word is easier to spell than the a-word.
Putin’s actions in Ukraine are eerily similar to those of Hitler’s in the 1930’s. The “world domination” thing. If we stop equating Putin with Nazi’s, but equate him with Hitler, I believe it would be more accurate.
Are there neo-Nazi’s in the world? Yes. Are there neo-Nazi’s in the US? Ukraine? Russia? Most definitely. But to equate Putin with Nazism is a mistake; to equate him with Hitler seems the more accurate thing to do. -IMO
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I don’t have the link handy, but I read earlier today while waiting for my eye doc appointment (while I could still read with dilated pupils) an observation of the obvious.
There are neo-Nazis and their copy cats in just about every nation in the world. And now, nationalism and anti democratic forces are gaining favor in the West, including the US. Democracy is messy and hard. A strong leader or dictator is so much more comforting to those who fear change.
With mass migrations and global economics, change is inevitable. Unfortunately it will probably be very bloody as climate changes make densely populated countries less livable. People are dying right now in India due to excessive heat for months. Iraq too.
Reservoirs in our on southwest are drying up and that affects millions of people and food supplies nationwide.
But, back to CRT and gay bashing.
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An interesting take on the Ukraine Nazi issue.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-shadowy-russian-scheme-that-dumped-nazis-into-ukraine-before-vladimir-putins-war?ref=home
The sub headline reads “For all the talk of wanting to “de-nazify” Ukraine, Vladimir Putin seems to have forgotten the fact that Russia has spent years fueling its neighbor’s Nazi problem.”
SO Putin forces his own neo-Nazis to Ukraine and then wonders why they are fighting against him. And is that how he justifies his “de-Nazification” reasoning?
These two comments from the end of the piece say a lot.
“This explains why, in a 2014 report by the Guardian, one Azov fighter was quoted as saying, “I have nothing against Russian nationalists, or a great Russia. But Putin’s not even a Russian. Putin’s a Jew.””
“In a nutshell, this is how you end up with Putin claiming he wants to de-nazify Ukraine and remove its Jewish president, while also having Russian neo-Nazis in Ukraine claiming Putin is a Jew. Either way, Putin’s claim is clearly a case of the Nazi kettle calling the Nazi pot black.”
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