Victimized Bully Syndrome

https://www.salon.com/2021/12/27/the-conservative-urge-to-be-a-victim-why-right-wing-victimhood-is-spreading-so-fast/

Here “conservatives”, have a look into the mirror. You will not like it but try thinking about what is being said.

It is not just the “leftists” at Salon who have noted the victimhood politics of “conservatives.” Google “conservative victimhood” to find dozens more similar pieces in reputable journals. No wonder you love your guns so much. You have convinced yourselves that everyone is coming to get you.

158 thoughts on “Victimized Bully Syndrome

  1. “You will not like it but try thinking about what is being said.”

    How does that work for Maxine Waters?

    Kyle Rittenhouse should have never gone to trial. Leftists made a simple issue into a big event.

    Same with Jan. 6.

    Cases mean anything. Someone can have symptoms like a cold, bad cold, the flu, or be hospitalized. Meaningless. If you had deaths from COVID, not with COVID, hospitalizations (and the comorbidities along w/race, gender, age), that would be useful.

    Forcing vaccination (which doesn’t really work like any other vaccine) so that you fire people and now have less workers, meaning staffing shortages at hospitals, what “side” caused that?

    Afghanistan. Who caused that?

    The borders, who caused that?

    Inflation, who caused that? Trump didn’t do that. Economists lay the blame on the print too many dollars, BBB pork.

    Sorry, I don’t see myself as a victim as much as I see factually proven wrong policies that are disassociated from reality. There is only one side associated with that and the havoc it causes.

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    1. Well, thanks for sharing.
      My only suggestion is that you try to find other sources of information about reality. I thing that most of these issues you list are either far more complicated or actually quite different than you seem to believe.

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      1. How is XY and XX disassociated from reality? Any time you have other than those chromosomes, there are problems physically.

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          1. If you have XX chromosomes and indicate you are not female, if you have XY and indicate you are not male, you are dissociated from a fact based reality. You might not like it, but you are. Simple.

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          2. But what exactly does XX/XY have to do with this post? You brought it up and I do not see any rational reason to bring it into the conversation.

            If you want to discuss mental health, then start another thread.

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          3. Sorry that you are not able to see that your chromosomes dictate whether or not you are male/female and not some ‘construct’. That’s part of not living in a fantasy world.

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          4. Well, thanks for that last post. It now seems clear what you were trying to do all along with this XY XX stuff. Childish personal attacks have been raised to the highest levels of GOP leadership so it is not surprising that you think it is appropriate and cute.

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          5. “Childish personal attacks have been raised to the highest levels of GOP leadership so it is not surprising that you think it is appropriate and cute.”

            What does this have to do with Democrats not supporting reality and so far, I’ve seen ad hominem attacks from the D’s, not the R’s or L’s or C’s.

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    2. “ Kyle Rittenhouse should have never gone to trial. Leftists made a simple issue into a big event.”

      Two people slaughtered in cold blood and one crippled by a self-righteous teenager is no simple issue.

      Liked by 2 people

    3. …”I see factually proven wrong policies that are disassociated from reality”

      Unlike the GOP, which has ZERO idea of what kind of policies are required to maintain the Republic we live in.

      Your blind hatred for and and all things Democratic, like Don’s, has become dangerous and delusional.

      Liked by 1 person

        1. Don’t have to. You already have. You have also proven to be blind to the lack of policies from the GOP. It’s all about the “likes”, retweets, and showmanship, not legislating.

          You cannot stand the fact that Democrats have the ability to make policy; the GOP makes two things 10 Noise, 20 fertilizer.

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          1. Me: Prove hatred from disagreement. You: Don’t have to.

            So you are unable to give a fact based, data based, argument. Already saw that.

            You: You have also proven to be blind to the lack of policies from the GOP. It’s all about the “likes”, retweets, and showmanship, not legislating.

            Me: Lets see: Youngkin wanted no CRT in classrooms, parents in charge, no mandates, getting rid of grocery taxes, there’s a start. If the R’s don’t have any policies, then what are you against of theirs? Nothing. Next, sky high taxes, food bills, gas bills, heating bills, all a cause of D economic policies. Harmful? Yes.

            You: You cannot stand the fact that Democrats have the ability to make policy; the GOP makes two things 10 Noise, 20 fertilizer.

            Me: the policies they make bring negatives like inflation. Kills jobs.

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          2. ME: Obamacare, so vilified for so long, is now extremely popular with those who thought it was “bad policy” and a “job killer”. WRONG. One example of your inaccuracy and right wing bias. And seeing as very little of the policies put forth by the Biden administration have come to fruition yet, I say it is speculative to call the ones already passed to be the ONLY cause of inflation. Supply chain issues, employee issues, and the rising cost of doing business have zero to do with the inflation, by your account. And many of those things have nothing to do with D policies, but those enacted under Mr. Trump.

            As far as Youngkin and CRT and election integrity goes, lets look. CRT is NOT being taught in K-12 schools. It was a fear mongering tactic to scare white voters into thinking their kids are being indoctrinated into some cult that is nonexistent. Parents ARE in charge at the ballot box.

            OK, I’ll give you the grocery tax, but guess what? Northam included that in his final budget proposal.

            Youngkin also called for audits of elections. ALREADY BEING DONE, IAW state law.

            NO new policies, just killing those of the predecessor.

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        2. Hatred blinds you to evidence, closes your mind and leads you to constantly demonize others. Simple disagreement does not have that effect.

          Dr. Tabor is a good example of that difference. Never mind the constant flow of cherry-picked and “alternative facts,” the people he disagrees with or leaders he disapproves of cannot be just wrong. They have to be “corrupt.” They have to be “arrogant.” They have to be “monsters.” They have to want “tyranny.” And on and on.

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    4. Maxine Waters, quoted out of context, is still matched 5 to 1 by Republican clowns like Green, Gaetz, Brooks, Cruz, etc., but in the willingness to be less petty, I will offer a tie.

      Essentially, Trump surrendered to the Taliban, ignoring the Afghan government. Any withdrawal would most likely have been messy or we would still be in the country.

      The inflation is worldwide and supply lines are still struggling everywhere, including the US.

      Vaccination is an issue. Not just because the unvaccinated are dying at higher rates, but they are filling up short staffed hospitals so that other medical procedures, emergencies and crucial preventative or elective ones, are denied other Americans. Plus, burned out doctors and nurses are quitting in droves.

      Rights come with responsibilities too. In crises, like a war or pandemic, citizen duties to support the national interests must be considered along with freedoms. Otherwise we are just a geographic location with every man for himself, fellow citizens be damned. WW2 had rationing, wage caps, gas and rubber shortages. People cooperating was one of our success stories. But laws enforced the sacrifices if some balked.

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      1. RE: “Vaccination is an issue. Not just because the unvaccinated are dying at higher rates, but they are filling up short staffed hospitals…”

        Not true, as a matter of fact. In the UK, recent death rates are four times higher for vaccinated than for unvaccinated patients; hospitalization rates are two time higher for vaccinated than for unvaccinated patients. Comparable statistics for the US are not published.

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        1. RE: “An the reason is that the vast majority are vaccinated.”

          So what? It is still false to say the unvaccinated are dying at higher rates.

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      2. Please quote the specific Green, Gaetz, Brooks and Cruz statements you allude to, that are the equal of Maxine Waters. Thanks.

        “Trump surrendered to the Taliban”. Biden left Americans behind, causing a scandal of huge proportions. We did not have this when Trump was in office. He did not leave Americans behind or pull out in a few seconds and then make an embarrassment when he didn’t address the issue (or shall I say the ladies who have been his spokespersons).

        Trump did not run an economy like this.

        Hospitals are short staffed because they got rid of non vaccinated workers they hailed months ago. Please review your stats on the unvaccinated vs. age, weight, and the bigger comorbidities that medical research indicated higher losses to. I would also ask you check and see how many Northam and Cuomo killed by allowing hospitals, even after it was known, to dump COVID patients in nursing homes.

        “citizen duties to support the national interests must be considered along with freedoms” Communism. Socialism. This is a free country.

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        1. Not to belabor this, Green accused Jewish satellites of starting CA wildfires. Looney. Brooks wore body armor to the 1/6 rally. What did he know about the violence?

          But that is old news, and so was Maxine…4 years ago maybe. But believe what you will.

          I think you are wrong about the loss of healthcare worker due mostly to vaccine mandates by the hospital. Yes, some did quit…but not a sole issue.

          Forget Cuomo. He was an asshole and will be punished for his transgressions. Democrats do eat their dead instead of protecting them like the GOP. Unless they show absolute loyalty to Trump. Then they are censured no matter how effective or good they were.

          If you feel that your duties as a citizen are not important in crises, then in my opinion you do not understand what citizenship means. Nor do you know, in my opinion, what communism or socialism are. As, BTW, most people who toss those around in political debate.

          Trump did not run the economy at all. It tanked on his watch, and has come back dramatically. People are getting higher pay, even quitting jobs for better ones. The market is doing well. Gas prices are dropping. Exports are up. Still supply chain issues like the rest of the world. And inflation, though high, is not near hyper. Remember, the fed kept interest rates at or near zero for years, so inflation was almost too low. The tax cuts increased the debt, BTW.

          Trump promised to get out of Afghanistan. He didn’t. Refugees were discouraged. So he just left the heavy lifting to Biden. We’re there problems? Sure. Would Trump have done better? We’ll never know because he did not do much except surrender the country to the Taliban.

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          1. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/greene-jewish-lasers-wildfires/

            “Brooks wore body armor to the 1/6 rally.” Antifa and BLM wear protection to their events.

            “Unless they show absolute loyalty to Trump.” My understanding is that Ben Shapiro is one of the leading no Trumpers or whatever they’re called.

            People don’t feel that voting is a part of citizenship. Some don’t.

            A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people. (D’s, thru Biden, are advocating this. This is to include the bypassing of Congress to make BBB law. That was also Obamacare’s illegal intervention: it should have been struck down because allocation of money is not the Presidents’ pervue: its Congress.) The Marxist-Leninist doctrine advocating revolution to overthrow the capitalist system and establish a dictatorship of the proletariat that will eventually evolve into a perfectly egalitarian and communal society. (Which is what is going on here.)

            Fourth paragraph is denying reality.

            Fifth is not how America sees the Afghanistan issue at all.

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          2. “My understanding is that Ben Shapiro is one of the leading no Trumpers or whatever they’re called.”

            He may have been early on, but like The National Standard and other self-proclaimed conservative websites and think tanks, he has fallen into the “Trump ain’t as bad as he is” crowd, cowering at the thought of losing subscribers and funding because the range haired god in Florida says so.

            See Governor of Alaska’s latest kowtowing for an endorsement from Trump.

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  2. From Salon: “a recent Public Religion Research Institute poll showed that 30 percent of Republicans believe that ‘true American patriots’ might need to resort to violence in order to save the country.”

    Count me among those who think violence may be needed to restore America’s constitutional republic and the ideal of liberty. I don’t believe this because I think of myself as a victim. Nor do I advocate insurrection or revolution. I just see a crisis coming in which violence will be unavoidable.

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    1. Why should we let less than 15% of Americans determine through violence whether we continue our grand experiment in freedom, democracy, the rule of law and peaceful transfers of power.

      Who do they think they and their supporters like yourself are?

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      1. “Who do they think they and their supporters like yourself are?”

        Sadly, the answer is obvious. They think they are the only “real Americans” and when they do not get what they want, they really believe something they are entitled to was stolen from them. It is the only way to understand that after the most unblemished and closely scrutinized election ever they are still suckers for the Big Lie. They did not win. The system MUST be broken beyond repair and violence is the only answer. Childish, I know. But that is exactly what is happening.

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          1. That’s what I thought.

            Had you said, “I’m just a guy,” there would be no irony. Instead you chose to categorize yourself, even though you criticize and demonize others for categorizing themselves.

            At least you admit to sublimating your personhood.

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      2. RE: “Why should we let less than 15% of Americans determine through violence whether we continue our grand experiment in freedom, democracy, the rule of law and peaceful transfers of power.”

        What are you even talking about? Should civil war break out, no one will have the luxury of declining to participate.

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        1. “ …a recent Public Religion Research Institute poll showed that 30 percent of Republicans believe that ‘true American patriots’ might need to resort to violence in order to save the country.”

          Count me among those who think violence may be needed to restore America’s constitutional republic and the ideal of liberty.”

          You words

          Well, Republicans are slight less than half of Americans. So that equates to 15% of the nation.

          If civil war comes, who are you going to side with and who will you shoot?

          Personally, I will defend the US and it’s government with the rest of the patriots.

          You?

          You want death and destruction, don’t you? Can’t wait to shoot a Democrat can you? Maybe you can ambush a neighbor who supports affordable health care. Cool, huh?

          Come on, admit it.

          Liked by 1 person

        2. RE: “You want death and destruction, don’t you?”

          I said I didn’t. Why is it so important to you to keep pretending I want things I don’t?

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          1. You claim to say you didn’t, but damned near every post you have shared has included advocating for violence (death and destruction DO fall into that category.)

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          2. You agreed that violence may be necessary.

            For what? To get what you want?

            That’s treasonous talk. Would you protect our country if we were invaded from outside? If so, why not against domestic attacks? Unless you did want to overthrow my nation’s government.

            You are being evasive and glib at the same time.

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  3. “ Count me among those who think violence may be needed to restore America’s constitutional republic and the ideal of liberty. …Nor do I advocate insurrection or revolution.”

    So what kind of violence do you think “may be needed”?

    Assassinations? Bombings? Anthrax powder?

    Violence against whom? Me? Congress? The President? School boards? Librarians?

    Or, as Texans love to say, is this a case of “all hat and no cattle”?

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    1. RE: “So what kind of violence do you think ‘may be needed’?”

      Any kind you want, against anyone you want. As I said, I don’t advocate insurrection or revolution.

      Try to focus on the concept that our republic and ideal of liberty can dissolve.

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      1. Sorry, but attempting to illegally overturn an election, attacking the Capitol, threatening election officials, etc. is not an acceptable way to prevent dissolution of our republic and liberty. That is the dissolution.

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        1. No proof of overturning an election. There is proof of political usage of federal systems (ie holding Jan 6th prisoners in the way they are but allowing 2 of the Kyle Rittenhouse attackers free) to go after political enemies.

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          1. A few dozen of the most violent attackers were held in jail. People who beat police half to death. Where would you keep them? A condo in Palm Springs?

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          2. I know of no R or C person who ever even gave any kind of serious thought to Peter Navarro and Steve Bannon.

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          3. Have you met Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of the United States? Or are you finally admitting that Mr. Trump is neither a C or R?

            Are you aware of how close MR. Bannon was to the WH around Jan 6th?

            Pay attention or the world will run your blind ass over.

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          4. Lets see, when words are violence, as they are for your side, that is at least the 3rd report I can file on your responses. Pity you have to resort to those types of things, rather than facts.

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          5. It is a fact that the real world will run you over. It is not a threat of violence to you by me, just a factual account of what is going to happen to those blinded by ignorance and loyalty to a con man.

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          6. Yet another attack. I think if I took a list of progressives vs. conservatives for personal attacks, it would stand out as a lack of data and usage of bullying and intimidation tactics to win an arguement.

            So far I’ve not seen that happen in your terms of the real world.

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          7. An attack? Seriously? Telling you that reality is going to bite you in the ass is an attack?

            Data and facts have been provided regularly by those on the same side of the discussion as myself. You, JTR, Don and others dismiss them because they don’t support YOUR worldview. Fine, Go ahead and believe that vaccines cause magnetism, Joe Biden stole the election, and that DJT is Jesus reincarnated come to save the world form the abominable snowman and all of his little socialist friends.

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          8. It is the courts that decide who gets bail while awaiting trial for violent and criminal acts. It has always been that way and it still is. The charge that some of these more violent terrorists failed to convince a judge that they should wait at home is going after political enemies is childish, ignorant nonsense.

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          9. “The charge that some of these more violent terrorists failed to convince a judge that they should wait at home is going after political enemies is childish, ignorant nonsense.”

            Then all people should be treated the same. Reviewing the record doesn’t. This is why Jason Miyares is going to go after those prosecutors who let criminals go to commit more crimes.

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          10. If Jason Miyares was involved in prosecuting those involved and charged, none woudl get bail. That is the impression I get form his campaign statements. (Which by the way are NOT within the bailiwick of AG).

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          11. Depending on the crime, I agree w/no bail. Where are the majority of these criminals released to? Is it middle class areas or mostly minority areas? If they are going to mostly minority areas, how do you feel about protecting them?

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          12. Not all should be granted bail. And does it matter where they are released? If your next door neighbor is discovered to be a heroin dealer, do you want him back next door while awaiting trial/ And let’s say that the kid next door got busted for marijuana possession, do you want him released or should he languish behind bars awaiting a hearing, which will, more than likely have the charges dismissed or a civil penalty (fine) imposed?

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      2. Our republic and our ideal of liberty can indeed dissolve. That has never been more clear.

        The threat to both our republic and to our liberty comes from the unpatriotic and, frankly, stupid people who support, minimize, justify, and ignore the clearly unlawful and violent attempt to nullify the last election.

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          1. Stupid is as stupid does.

            You don’t care if people get what they want in unacceptable ways – like violence. I don’t care if I hurt the delicate feelings of truly stupid, awful people. I really don’t care, do U?

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          2. WTF, calling people stupid is a reason to overthrow the government and cause slaughter of men, women and children as the means to a vague end?

            You use the phrase “true American patriots”. (True Scotsman again?) Apparently you aren’t one.

            Well, my friend, that is me, along with the majority of Americans, and I don’t advocate violence and think that those who do are threatening murder and treason.

            Sadly, it took a few years for your true nature to appear. However, the truth will out, and it just did.

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          3. RE: “You use the phrase ‘true American patriots’.”

            Actually, that is not my phrase. I wrote, “Count me among those who think violence may be needed to restore America’s constitutional republic and the ideal of liberty.”

            I can’t tell from your comments whether the American who fought in the Revolutionary War would qualify as patriots to you. I assume they wouldn’t since men, women and children all suffered in the conflict. Perhaps there should not have been a war at all, because wars are violent.

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          4. You are lying. You quoted the survey about 30% seeing violence as a solution to some vague BS by “patriots” and want us to count you in as agreeing with that sentiment.

            Don’t even try to equate the yellow bellied gangs with the founders. That has no relevance or bearing to what you want or advocate.

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          5. Once you denigrate folks, since the left considers violence to be words, then the left is doing more of the violence from their words.

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          6. Try this.

            Words are the antithesis of violence. Congress is where we iron out our differences instead of with weapons. The founders knew that there had to be a way for disputes, regional differences, religious conflicts and the like to work out compromises and other solutions rather than bloodshed.

            The last administration disagreed and the results were telling on 1/6.

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          7. The regret in electing Biden over Trump has been shown when people were asked. No one wants to lose ground, jobs, homes, when the economy is tanking, inflation rampant, freedom restricted, etc. That is why a million folks left D leaning states.

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        1. Then why not both sides join in on election integrity? I’ve seen a # of places showing incorrect voters. Shouldn’t be a problem for both sides.

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          1. You have personally audited and approved or disapproved the ballots?

            Even when Republicans, particularly AZ and Wisconsin which did massive audits, investigations, etc. Even removing ballots to a secret location in Montana no fraud was found that would have come close to turning the election.

            How come Republican won down ballots seats. Some trick, eh?

            Tell us what your investigations found.

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          2. We did have information that allowed us to go to homes to verify that John and Jane Doe lived there currently, not dead or decased or moved away more than a year ago. Yes we did find that not every one of those checked places were authentic, eligible voters that were named and counted as voters lived at those addresses.

            I have been an elections official and a poll watcher.

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          3. Yes we do – can’t swear it is the same thing but yes we have a list and simply ask a few questions and go. If they don’t want to answer, we just leave.

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          4. “I’ve seen a # of places showing incorrect voters. ”

            And damned near all of the were Trump voters.

            AS far as both sides go, the Democrats have put forth a couple of different bills that address election integrity and fairness. The GOP wants nothing to do with them because it will cost them voters. How, I don’t know. But that seems to be the belief.

            Why is that…See my post today concerning Rand Paul. He believes that Democrats steal elections by presenting ideas to make things better and convincing people to , wait for it.. VOTE for them. Silly politicians.

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          5. “And damned near all of the were Trump voters.”

            What proof do you have of that? None of us know which way any of those folks voted. All we had was go to 123 Tester Street in Boise Idaho and see if they live there, and are registered voters.

            “AS far as both sides go, the Democrats have put forth a couple of different bills that address election integrity and fairness. The GOP wants nothing to do with them because it will cost them voters.”

            Election integrity means showing an ID like you do for beer, medical care, etc. A legitimate one. Works in other countries.

            As AOC does not represent all D’s, Rand Paul does not represent all R’s.

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          6. Every single report of voter fraud was reported to be Trump voters attempting to vote TWICE using a dead mom, ex-wife, or some other relative.

            Get out of your right wing media bubble and PAY ATTENTION.

            Election integrity is NOT just ID’s. It is the fairness to allow ALL citizens who want to exercise their right to vote and not have the vote overturned by some politically motivated election official. THE GA “integrity” laws state that voting officials can overturn ballot outcomes they don’t like and have taken away the authority form the AG to oversee these things. A REPUBLICAN AG, at that. Not to mention the gerrymandering done by both parties, but perfected by the GOP dilutes the power of voters of color.

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          7. “Every single report of voter fraud was reported to be Trump voters attempting to vote TWICE using a dead mom, ex-wife, or some other relative.”

            This indicates you were not someone who worked on election integrity. Thank you for establishing that fact.

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          8. Never claimed to. HOWEVER, I do read FACTAUL news reports concerning issues that are important to me. Seeing the hypocrisy of those crying out about election integrity get all panty-wadded when they are told it was people voting for their candidate of choice who are the ones committing REAL fraud.

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          9. Another ad hominem attack.

            If you read factual reports, please share. People are looking for that data, I would like to see it.

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          1. “Youngkin and crew are not like Trump.”

            He pandered to the poisoned minds of the GOP to get the nomination. Before he got the nod – from a process the Trump faithful were – WISELY – exclued from – he would not categorically and unequivocally state that President Biden won the election fair and square. Once he was nominated he – WISELY – tried to distance himself from those same people.

            So, decent fellow though he may be, he too was carrying water for the wannabe President-for-life.

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          2. “poisoned mind of the GOP” ROFL LOL. For someone who talks about the hate in others heart, you certainly spew a lot of it.

            I never heard the “Trump faithful” were excluded. My understanding is that only R voters could vote in the primaries. Whether or not they liked Trump or not, they were allowed to vote in that closed ‘convention’.

            I have no idea if the last several elections were won fair and square or not. That is because there is no election integrity that provides checks and balances and then checks out the data afterwards.

            Youngkin has spent more time on running on the issues he has chosen and not be led off those. Its a pattern that I guess you missed. Some of us did not. I know folks that were on the R groups that wanted him to address certain issues that he never did.

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          3. UH, there was NO primary in the GOP for this year’s election. Party leaders were afraid of what their voters would do so they got together in one of those famous (but this time virtual) smoke-filled rooms – a closed convention – and picked the candidate. There was no way for ordinary Republican voters to directly “vote.” You first had to be active in the party and selected to be a voting delegate to the convention

            My statement was accurate.

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        1. RE: “And THAT is exactly the problem with Trump…”

          What is exactly the problem? Is there something wrong with people who acknowledge that political conflict can lead to violence or that violence sometimes is the only means of political resolution?

          I think you and Mr. Rothman are trying to pass yourselves off as superior human beings by invoking irrelevant moral judgements that you imagine make you look good.

          In the process you have ignored the observation that inspired my original comment: violence may be needed to restore America’s constitutional republic and the ideal of liberty.

          Logically, you should argue that the republic and liberty don’t or won’t need to be restored, or that violence won’t be necessary if they do. Instead, you choose to preen and divide over unrelated matters.

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          1. We are “superior”?

            If you cannot work within the framework of the most successful form of governance guaranteeing freedoms never before available in history, then that is not a matter of intellect, but rather greed and dictatorship.

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          2. Back to blaming Trump ROFL LOL.

            Got news for you, I’ve seen games on both sides, however, more of it on the Democratic side. Using any sort of excuse to not protect legal American voters (and get more non American voters in) dilutes votes and is flat out illegal, not to mention that other countries don’t do it. Having to be carded for firearms and beer but not votes has no basis in logic – unless you want to fudge elections and screw over legitimate law abiding citizens.

            Btw, Hillary did not accept the election.

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          3. Clinton did concede nor did she stir up an attack on government.

            She was not happy, but losing an election is not exactly a cause for celebration.

            Fraud by individual voters at the polls is hard, rare and often discovered. Several Republicans in PA and OH tried to vote for their dead relatives and got caught.

            Voter fraud is what the Republicans are doing now by reducing access to the polls along with threatening election officials and making it much easier to toss out an election and hand pick winners.

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          4. Hillary’s recent comments indicate otherwise. She did claim election interference. Trump didn’t stir up an attack on the govt. I went thru the speech.

            “Fraud by individual voters at the polls is hard, rare and often discovered. ” Data indicates otherwise. With laws like in Europe, put into play over here, that would be helpful. However, the indications as someone who has taken election verification training and seeing the data, I disagree with your statement, as it is not equal to the facts.

            I’ve been around to a lot of polls. Never seen reducing access, actually it is better than what it was even 5 years ago. I’ve yet to see threats to election officials. I did see someone be very rude to an election worker and I complained about that to the city, as it was unwarrented.

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          5. Locally you may be correct. But NATIONALLY it is an issue. You can ask election workers in Georgia or the Attorney General there. You can check in with Michigan, Florida and in other states where access had been reduced (North Dakota and Georgia and Texas which have been closing polling places in predominantly minority precincts comes to mind).

            Your blindness to reality is proof how dangerous the uninformed can be.

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          6. I’ve yet to see specific instances (especially in Georgia) where that is a problem. Closing districts is not unusual. If there are fewer voters in a precinct, they’ll roll them into one bigger one. I have had multiple precincts where I live, some closer, some farther. I do believe state law indicates 5K as the most we can have in a precinct in Va. If that is true in other states/commonwealths, and you have trouble filling people in a minority district with fewer voters (which does not always mean racism, can be do to other factors), you’ll move them elsewhere. Shortage of workers too.

            It is also possible that if you have a large precinct and only 1 available spot with either not enough distancing or parking, that they can move it.

            This is where not having data, research, polling, causes problems for the issues you indicate. Simply because a polling place is removed, you have to research why that happened.

            I still see you can’t stop ad hominem attacks.

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          7. RE: “If you cannot work within the framework of the most successful form of governance…”

            How can anyone work within a framework that no long exists?

            Again, you should argue that the republic and liberty don’t or won’t need to be restored, or that violence won’t be necessary if they do.

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          8. No longer exists? If Trump had succeeded in the autogolpe, that would be the case.

            Fortunately some Americans with integrity in key government positions refused to rig the results.

            If you don’t think we are still a viable democratic republic under the rule of law, then perhaps you might work to educate the populace and participate in free and fair elections like a true American should do. And then accept the results as a true American should also do.

            Liked by 2 people

          9. There is a vast difference between acknowledging that political conflict can lead to violence versus trying to make violence happen, encouraging violence, and trying to justify violence when it fails.

            You say you want to be counted “among those who think violence may be needed to restore America’s constitutional republic and the ideal of liberty.” That makes you a traitor – by the definition in that Constitution you falsely claim to defend.

            You traitors think our republic is failing when you do not get your way. Besides your inability to keep the President-for-life in office, is there any other way you can cite that our republic needs restoring? Too many of those “arrogant” “urban” people are now participating in the process, maybe? Is that what you mean by failing? And, what liberty have YOU lost?

            Liked by 1 person

          10. I left out the 3rd because I’ve seen that not true.

            First, easy: if I said what the causes were behind certain racial, gender, other issues (ie Aaron Rodgers) I would be negatively affected. I was barred from attending religious services falsely.

            Second, how many people can afford firearms or have restrictions on them when they are not criminals? Do they have to pay $$$$$ for that privilege?

            Fourth: ATF suppressor bribes still don’t stop them from an unreasonable search and seizure of your home for said part. Criminals don’t have that.

            Fifth: I’m denied liberty if I’m a Jan 6th person, simply for being there. There has been at least one case I know of in Chesapeake where someone had their property taken for public use without true compensation.

            Sixth: Jan. 6th people aren’t getting a speedy trial like some criminals now – in D states.

            8th: Excessive bail – that’s pretty easy.

            14th: Was made for the former slaves, not for today.

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          11. Speedy trials are a two way street. Lawyers are demanding immediate access to 14,000 hours of raw video that needs to organized among other things.

            You were not arrested for being at the rally unless you breached the police lines illegally.

            Poor people have been screwed on bail for a century. Conservatives never cared…until now. Maybe we should revisit conservative judge bail postings in the past too for petty thieves, drug sales, etc.

            Drug laws have allowed confiscation of property without trials. This has been going on for decades. Even small businessmen have lost life savings because local cops say the money was suspicious. Getting it back was difficult if not impossible. Did you raise complaints then?

            Free speech was to protect citizens from federal government reprisals against citizen words. Not business, advertising, etc.

            You can buy practically any gun you want. Did Obama take yours away? No, of course not.

            Liked by 1 person

          12. Disagree. I know folks that went to the rally.

            “Conservatives never cared…until now. ” Proof? You may not have known unless you saw it in media or dealt with those.

            I have been raising those concerns on search and seizure, specifically in regards to minorities, pre COVID, yes.

            When the govt. uses business to accomplish its ends, it becomes part of the govt and part of their reprisals, as you call them.

            Not automatics. Semi autos you can, and you can’t change a semi to be auto. Also, raising the price so it is out of reach of most people, or making requirements of what can be put on guns to call them something they’re not, is another way to stop people from owning any gun they want.

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          13. The automatic gun laws have been on the books since early last century. Conservatives have done little to change them.

            I am sorry to hear you have suffered so badly in the US.

            Red Whine goes good with Red Meat evidently. 😊

            Liked by 1 person

          14. “How can anyone work within a framework that no long exists”

            What is it that you think no longer exists?

            Personally, I doubt you can give a cogent, reality-based answer. You are all a bunch of dopes, dupes, whiners, and sore losers and not much else. But go ahead, prove me wrong. What framework is now non-existent?

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          15. RE: “But go ahead, prove me wrong. What framework is now non-existent?”

            You seem lost. Here’s the point: Should the republic and liberty end, there will be nothing to be a traitor to.

            Liked by 1 person

          16. I am not lost. You are. The meaning of past, present and future tenses in the English language is not hard to understand. Nor are words like “No longer exists.” You write of the framework of legal recourse to grievances no longer existing – NOW. That is how you justify violence – NOW.

            As usual, you are backtracking by accusing others of failing to understand what you CLEARLY wrote.

            Liked by 1 person

          17. I have read the amendments and I disagree that you have lost any of those rights.

            Unless you can list specific ways that you have lost those rights, you are just being glib. You are practicing bumper sticker politics.

            Liked by 1 person

          1. Why because you say so? You are advocating for political violence throughout this thread. Just because you can’t see your own faults (how you can miss that many is beyond me) is no basis to say that I am wrong.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. RE: “You are advocating for political violence throughout this thread.”

            Only in your imagination.

            You were in the Navy, weren’t you? Did you think your service as a warfighter might be inherently wrong because governments exist?

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          3. Wow, Dr. Semantics on a roll.

            BIGLY difference when it comes to serving one’s country and calling for DOMESTIC POLTICAL VIOLENCE, as you are continuing to advocate for.

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  4. I think Salon has reached the point of needing an in-house shrink.

    Rittenhouse did not attack anyone. He defended himself against repeated attacks and pursuit. That is pretty much the definition of victim. The fact that he was successful in defending himself does not change who the aggressor was.

    But it is more general than that.

    If one party seeks simply to be left alone to enjoy their rightfully created wealth and freedom to act so long as they harm no one else, and the other seeks to plunder their goods and control their actions, it’s pretty clear who the bully is and who is the victim. Again, the victim might succeed in defending themselves, but that does not change who the bully is.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. RE: “I think Salon has reached the point of needing an in-house shrink.”

      Yes. The irony is almost too thick to resolve without psychotherapy.

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          1. Sure.
            The deeper irony is that you would speak of irony when it is YOU people who are entangled in paranoia and psychotic beliefs. It makes you dangerous and sure enough you are the ones engaged in promoting violence to make things right.

            One way to understand psychosis is to imagine two circles. One circle is the real world. The other is what you believe about the real world. The degree to which they overlap is a measure of mental health. When they barely touch you have psychosis. Those who real your reports from YOUR Bizarro universe are not the ones who need psychiatric help.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. RE: “The deeper irony is that you would speak of irony when it is YOU people who are entangled in paranoia and psychotic beliefs.”

            That’s funny. There’s the irony of the pot calling the kettle black, then the deeper irony of the pot calling the kettle a pot.

            No, I didn’t miss that.

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    2. I am returning from a long trip to the Galapagos. Your preferred form of governance is in full swing…among the iguanas, sea lions, blue footed boobies and other assorted fauna and flora.

      Personally, I think we are trying to improve on that. But food, territory, dominance and procreation are seemingly the ideal end result of your politics.

      Great expeditionary vacation, BTW. One of the few isolated areas of the world where only our interference over the centuries wiped out some species. But our efforts to conserve what was here is paying off wonderfully.

      Liked by 2 people

    1. Cry me a river!

      This “lady” exercised her freedom and CHOSE to join a violent mob breaking the law and attempting to overthrow the government. She got off lightly. If she were not white, she would have been shot. Along with dozens of others if this had been a black mob seeking to destroy the government and murder our leaders.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. “This “lady” exercised her freedom and CHOSE to join a violent mob breaking the law and attempting to overthrow the government. She got off lightly. If she were not white, she would have been shot. Along with dozens of others if this had been a black mob seeking to destroy the government and murder our leaders.”

        Proof of your statements?

        So then it would be ok to gun down Antifa and BLM by your comment that they’re exercising their freedom and choose violent mobs breaking that law?

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    2. Master Rittenhouse ( he WAS 17 when he committed his acts of violence) was involved with private citizens and interfering with their right to protest.

      This lady was involved in attacking police officers performing their sworn duty to protect. BIG freakin’ difference.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Does matter what the age is.

        So you don’t think it is right to shoot a sex offender, a domestic abuser and an armed communist. So all those are not crimes in your book?

        “This lady was involved in attacking police officers performing their sworn duty to protect. BIG freakin’ difference.”
        Proof? So that means any one attacking police officers should get this kind of treatment, no matter their race/color/creed/etc.?

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        1. “Does matter what the age is.”

          My use of his age was to refer to him as Master, vice Mister.

          Are those criminals caught in the act or you just KNOW they did something?

          Pretty big mob of folks attacking the Capitol Police and those guarding the Capitol from the “tourists and trespassers”. Would YOU just stand there and take it? Again, someone brings in the race card when not needed to make his point, even if the point is stupid.

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          1. Go to a mob/riots, etc. don’t expect to beat up on people (Kyle) and they not strike back.

            Really? I’ve seen video of people being let in. Until I know those video(s) and the like testimony are proven untrue, we do not know what happened there for sure. Seems to me all those ?smart? congress folks should have been able to get out.

            Kinda interesting how only the left/progressive is doing > 95% of the negative pejoratives to the other side of the argument.

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          2. “I’ve seen video of people being let in.”

            I’ve seen a lot more video of rioters throwing things at cops, beating them with whatever was handy, breaking windows and doors.

            Your video evidence of people letting others in is probably the GOP representative in Oregon who let prostesters into their legislature.

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          3. Being let in and beating cops are totally different things. ” GOP representative in Oregon who let prostesters into their legislature.” was police letting them into the Senate building.

            Any time you make an assumption like that, you have rendered judgement before looking at all the data/facts. One of the main factors that doesn’t make any progressive/leftist a candidate for fair judgement.

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          4. So you deny the proof of cops being beaten by rioters on Jan 6th?

            And you question MY judgement? There is a lot more video of violence than of one or two corrupt cops allowing protesters in.

            Where is YOUR video evidence of what you claim? You called me out for not providing proof of my statements, yet when I ask for proof, the request is normally ignored.

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    1. I will not contest research done by Pew. I have often cited their polls documenting the hypocrisy, ignorance, selfishness, and persistent delusions that are the hallmark of modern “conservatives.” I think it was one of their polls that found a majority of self-confessed Republicans STILL believe that President Obama is a Muslim from Kenya.

      Besides, while being quite healthy myself, the finding that liberals suffer from diagnosable disorders disproportionately seems credible. Living in reality full of conflicting goals and evidence, ambiguity, and complexity is far more stressful than living in the oversimplified fantasy world that you folks inhabitant. The old saying. . . “Ignorance is bliss” could well explain these findings.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. So you admit you are sick in the head. Thanks. That is step one but there are hundreds left to go to get back to reality. In your case, a lobotomy would speed up the healing process measurably. Talk to your shrink.

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  5. “Hatred blinds you to evidence, closes your mind and leads you to constantly demonize others. Simple disagreement does not have that effect.”

    If you were able to present evidence that is clear and common sense, rather than innuendo and ad hominem attacks, that could be reviewed. You haven’t. I see a lot of back and forth, but don’t see actual data, or even referring to fact/data anywhere.

    What is totally funny is that you think that you are worth hating. You’re worth praying for, because of the depraved mind. I feel sorry for you. I have no wish to see folks in Hell.

    Dr. Tabor is capable of rational thought.

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  6. “You first had to be active in the party and selected to be a voting delegate to the convention”

    You didn’t have to be active in the party. Just a member. Well advertised. No delegates because the “convention” was not held in one place, and everyone could vote. I know the difference simply because I passed the word along to others and I was not a delegate and I was a delegate in another instance.

    Like

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