Bears

Kerry’s site

If you haven’t read Kerry Dougherty’s blog today, you should.

The outbreak in Massachusetts was not a representative sample of the country as a whole, and it is doubtful that national policy should be guided by an event that involves closer contact than our everyday interactions.

37 thoughts on “Bears

  1. RE: “it is doubtful that national policy should be guided by an event that involves closer contact than our everyday interactions.”

    Well said.

    At some point we’re going to have to deal with the fact that the Covid-19 vaccines are better at preventing illness than infection. Perhaps organizers or local health officials should set up Ivermectin clinics for participants at such events.

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  2. We are witnessing a COVID experiment in Florida and a few other states with lax rules. Right now it is grim. Maybe Provincetown is not what we might encounter among our age group or for the immunosuppressed among us.

    Yet, the surges in some areas are creating major logjams in hospitals. And that is one of the serious issues with the unvaccinated: other illnesses and surgeries cannot be treated or done while beds are overflowing with COVID patients. Plus, nurses and ER doctors are seeing younger patients with serious symptoms. And healthcare workers are worn out physically and emotionally.

    We have had about 125,000 breakthroughs. Sounds like a lot, but in comparison to he hundreds of million who are inoculated, are rare birds indeed. Death and hospitalization are rarer yet.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. Kerry lost me – again – with her snide reference to the CDC as a “breathless doomsday cult.” It would have been possible – IMHO – to offer constructive criticism of the new guidance with reference to the bear information without impugning the people at the CDC trying to save lives and acting with the certain knowledge that whatever they do or don’t do will be the subject of accusations by the likes Kerry who hate the government on general principles.

    With the virus poised for a fourth wave that will kill many thousands of the unvaccinated ANY attempt to undermine the more strict CDC guidance on masking to score political points is what is really misguided. With lives at stake what is wrong with “better safe than sorry?” Is wearing a mask while in crowds to stop the dying really such a burden?

    The CDC is not the enemy. The enemy is the tens of millions of people who are keeping the virus alive through their ignorant and selfish refusal to get vaccinated. That is the simple truth of the matter and no finger pointing at the CDC gives such people a Bye. IMHO.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. The CDC is to be condemned for 2 reasons in this.

      First, it is irrational to base national policy on the degree of contact and crowding that occurred in Massachusetts. That is epidemiologic malpractice.

      Second, the word will get out. Sooner or later it always does, and the CDC has no spare credibility to throw away by not making the circumstances of the outbreak clear. You can only cry wolf so many times before people stop listening. Someday, they will have something important to say and it won’t be heard.

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      1. Condemned?

        Again, it is possible to criticize the CDC’s guidance without indulging in the nonsense that you people spout.

        Kerry calling them names is one example. They are not a doomsday cult. Or there is you and others attributing CDC guidance to some sort of political conspiracy to divert attention from the “crisis” at the border. Nonsense.

        The guidance (not policy) that you object to is SOUND and obviously so with the infections, hospitalizations and deaths spiralling upward. Whether this partying is representative of every day life is beside the point. What was demonstrated by this data is that vaccinated people can become infected and spreaders. That alone calls for re-thinking the guidance about how VACCINATED people should behave.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. For the CDC’s guidance to be of any use, they must be credible. By basing their “guidance” which almost instantly becomes policy, on a very atypical event that credibility is destroyed.

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          1. You people are rich. The CDC needs to be credible but you people and your leaders go out of your way to undermine it for ANY and every reason any time you can.

            In this case, the advice is SOUND. With the “Bear” partying demonstrating that vaccinated people can become infected and spreaders then vaccinated people in areas where the Delta variant is rampaging SHOULD mask up in crowded areas.

            So what is Kerry’s reason for attacking the credibility of the SOUND advice? Cheap and dangerous pandering to the government haters? The effect of a piece like hers and many others in “conservative” media will be for the weak minded to say to themselves . . . “I am not a ‘Bear.’ I do not need to wear a mask.” Because of that “thinking” people will die.

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          2. Really?

            Do you hug and kiss strangers in Harris Teeters? Do you cram 1000 people into a bar intended for 150?

            Contagion is not just a factor of the virus, it is determined by human actions as well.

            Basing policy on a false equivalence is decption, and not being forthcoming about the sample is doubliy so.

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  4. While I hold no place in my heart (nor life) for people (bears) who like to play in fecal matter, they can do what they want but don’t cry to me when they get deathly sick and don’t formulate national policy on their behavior. Same goes for the unvaccinated. It’s only a matter of time when they either get it and are then naturally immune or die. Maybe the answer is hold a big party for them and get it over with.

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        1. Lakes of the Ozarks was reported to have had a VERY large gathering of individuals, which could easily become another “crowded event” causing a spike among those in attendance and them taking “things” home with them.

          So Ms. Daughtery blaming an event for homosexuals when heterosexual events of similar or larger size are also occurring appears to be a sign of her personal homophobia. Just another right-wing target of blame when there is PLENTY to go around.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. It’s not about blaming the party goers at either event. Did you even read Kerry’s piece?

            Her criticism was of the CDC using the results of a very atypical event as a basis for guidance. You don’t go to Target and hug and kiss strangers from across the country, so why base policy on masks on an event where people did exactly that.

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          2. The piece was explicitly non-judgmental. If you see homophobia, you are projecting.

            The realities of such an event are that large crowds gather and the sexual nature of the event leads to a lot of contact that is different from what you would experience at home Depot or a Restaurant.

            That would be just as true for a heterosexual swingers convention.

            The criticism was not of the Bears, it was of the CDC for using it to issue guidance as though it was typical of daily life and not making that disxtinction clear.

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          3. “Much goes on during Bear Week that could spread germs. I’ll leave it there.” Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.
            “I’m not judging.” I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.

            Here is the exact guidance that has your hair on fire . . .

            “If you’ve been fully vaccinated:
            You can resume activities that you did prior to the pandemic.
            To reduce the risk of being infected with the Delta variant and possibly spreading it to others, wear a mask indoors in public if you are in an area of substantial or high transmission.”

            Now, drop all of your CDC-bashing bullshit and please share, how is that NOT good advice?

            Liked by 1 person

          4. The most important thing we can do is to get people vaccinated. We don’t need to hand the anti-vaxxers any ammunition.

            The guidance does not stand alone. It came with statements that the Delta Variant was as contagious as chicken pox and that vaccinated people could spread it was easily as unvaccinated, which is patently false.

            What the skeptical hear in that is that the vaccines don’t work.

            I know some vaccine skeptics. I can tell them the vaccines work, explain why they are safe until I am hoarse, The comeback is always, ‘If the vaccines work, why do you still have to wear a mask?’

            So, choose one. Get people vaccinated or get them masked after they are. You won’t get both.

            People aren’t going to submit to your will just because you, or the CDC says so.

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          5. So, there is nothing wrong with advice.

            But you know some dummies so the CDC has to choose promoting mask wearing or vaccination but not both. Nonsense.

            “The guidance does not stand alone. It came with statements that the Delta Variant was as contagious as chicken pox and that vaccinated people could spread it was easily as unvaccinated, which is patently false.”

            Neither is patently false. Both are demonstrably true.

            A vaccinated person may be a danger for a shorter period of time but they are still a danger. And, just how do you know that Delta is not as contagious as Chicken Pox? The story that it is comes from – not a statement – but a leaked internal CDC briefing on the science. That briefing shows various diseases on a scale of contagiousness. Delta IS about as contagious as Chicken Pox according to the epidemiologists preparing that briefing. You know something they don’t? See page 15 of the presentation . . .

            https://bit.ly/3778gY7

            Liked by 1 person

          6. Iti is the second part that is patently false, not both.

            The presumption was made that because at some point the PCR test value was similar that vaccinated and unvaccinated would be equal spreaders.

            However, the unvaccinated person will retain that high viral load for several days longer than the vaccinated person, and will be coughing and sneezing far more and for longer.

            Contagion is not solely a factor of viral load. The asymptomatic or mildly ill vaccinated person is no where close to as much a danger to others has the hacking and coughing desperately ill victim.

            I am doing my best to convince people to vaccinate. and it does not help to have the CDC and FDA undermining that effort.

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          7. “It is the second part that is patently false, not both.”

            Your two statements about what the CDC said is joined by “and.” You were citing both as examples of baaad things the CDC says. That is obvious and your denying that now instead of coping to another “bad assumption” does you no credit.

            Here is her actual statement about transmission. She does NOT equate it with the risk from an infected person.

            “High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus. This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation. The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones.”

            Maybe the way her statement has been, uh, interpreted in “conservative” media is “patently false” however her actual statement is not.

            You are simply way over zealous with your accusations against those you do not like. And, for whatever reason, while saying the CDC’s credibility is important, you and your ilk undermine it at every opportunity with this kind of dishonest bullshit.

            Liked by 1 person

      1. You seem to be the only one with knowledge of these pool parties. Were you there? Anyhow, only one person who attended the Memorial Day parties, I think you are referencing, tested positive. Im not sure they even got it from the event. Do you think national policy should have been initiated based solely on these parties?
        https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/wireStory/health-official-covid-19-cases-missouri-parties-71069249

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    1. “…the unvaccinated. It’s only a matter of time when they either get it and are then naturally immune or die.”

      It might be easy to dismiss their choice, unfortunately every bed occupied by the seriously ill from COVID is a bed that the cancer patient, joint replacement candidate, or other emergency victims may not get.

      Vaccinations may not prevent all infections, but they do soften the symptoms so hospitalization is much rarer.

      The “my personal freedom” crowd is forgetting that a virus doesn’t give a hoot what your political philosophy is. It can kill or hospitalize a resistor or a immunosuppressed American with equal ease. And if the immunosuppressed patient is stuck in a temporary tent in the parking lot because beds are full of those who think the virus is a hoax, someone’s freedom is in danger.

      Liked by 2 people

  5. It was really really really disturbing. Reading Kerry’s piece. Painful, shocking. It was like a surly ghost from the past. Journalism’s past, I mean. Can you remember the old days? Smart people trying to inform us about what was going on in the world. Alas. When was the last time we heard that voice in Tidewater?

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    1. “Smart people trying to inform us about what was going on in the world.”

      Again, you are disturbed about the story Kerry posted, yet you ignore what was going on at Lakes of the Ozarks. Homophobia on the right rears its ugly head once again.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. You are the one introducing judgment into the thread. Kerry was specific in pointing out that adults may do as they please. I pointed out that a heterosexual swingers convention would be no different.

        The problem is the CDC basing guidance on the outcome of that event and then not telling the public about the self-selecting sample.

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        1. Kerry could have used ANY large event to make her point. But she just HAD to single out the one she chose. Why is that? Her latent homophobia – IMO. Has to feed her own little blog base and she knows that “culture” issues are fertilizer for the farmers.

          Liked by 1 person

      1. “CDC’s deceptions?”

        Actually the article described the events factually. You would not have liked it all.

        You made two claims about CDC “deceptions” earlier in this thread and got egg all over your face. And still just not able to back off your bullshit. But, hey, we understand . . . Haters gonna hate.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Did the CDC disclose the atypical nature of its sample or did it not?

          You don’t need the opinion of WAPO to know the answer, it didn’t.

          That was deception.

          All the name calling in the world won’t change that.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. If you read an actual fact-based account you would know that the data from that Provincetown outbreak was not the only basis for changing the guidance. It was important evidence but not the only evidence. And while you may claim that it was not representative behavior, in fact, it was. People like to party. Now they have been warned not to assume that it is safe. Lives will be saved.

            And as I have repeatedly shared with you the salient fact is that they have learned that vaccinated people can become carriers and spread it to others. Given that FACT the very restrained guidance the CDC offered was the very least they could have done.

            Your repeating your nonsense about “deception” does not change that it is nonsense. In fact, with the evidence I have shared with you, the repeating of this nonsense becomes dishonest.

            Liked by 1 person

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