Political violence approved by a majority of Republicans.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-06-20/some-republicans-now-see-violence-as-a-necessary-means-to-an-end

“In a survey by the conservative American Enterprise Institute after the riot in January, 56% of Republicans agreed that “the traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.”

In the same poll, 79% of Republicans said they still had a favorable view of Trump — and 36% said “very favorable.”

I guess it makes sense. Despite trying to overturn the election through violence, recruiting gangs, attacking our electoral system as rigged and fraudulent for 5 years, the Big Lie, extorting Republican office holders whom he did not deem loyal, etc., #45 is still their strongman.

Questions: who fires the first shot, at whom, and why?

53 thoughts on “Political violence approved by a majority of Republicans.

    1. The day that Democrats take the advice of Jonah Goldberg is the day that we might as well go home and let the fascists run the country.

      Yeah, I said “fascists” – the people who promote and approve of political violence (see the poll), the people who worship unquestioningly at the feet of the Mar-a-Lago Mussolini, the people who do their best to demonize and disenfranchise racial minorities, the people who wallow in LIES without any respect for what is true. Those fascists.

      Speaking of LIES, this piece by Mr. Boone is a handy compilation of the “alternative facts” and the victimy whining constantly on offer from the moribund GOP.

      Let’s look at the very silly whataboutism at the beginning of this silly piece . . .
      “When Trump won, leftists rampaged the streets”

      And what is the evidence? – A link to a story in a Portland newspaper where we learn that about 4,000 protesters turned out, dumpster fires were set but that “the protest was mostly peaceful until demonstrators met with an anarchist group, after which demonstrators vandalized buildings, kicked cars and knocked out power.” Yeah, sure, that is just like the President assembling a murderous mob to stop the processes of the Congress.

      BTW, “anarchists” are not leftists or Democrats. They hate the government even more than you people do.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. You just can’t help yourself but prove the article true with this kind of left wing drivel full of political attacks on half the country using lies or mischatacterization just like the article maintains. Thanks again, I couldn’t have proven it as well as you always do…

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        1. Right wing pundits attack over half the country every single day. And the lies are well documented and often easily discounted.

          So what is your point? If you have a disagreement, do like the rest of us and back up with some evidence.

          The idea is to contribute to the debate, not just stand in the corner and yell insults.

          If there are lies in your view, try pointing them out and offer some rebuttal other than “your drivel”.

          Liked by 2 people

        2. Half the country? You flatter yourselves. You people are – maybe – a slim majority of a minority party. The four characteristics of fascism that I listed fit Trumpism to a tee. If you were not so poorly educated you would know that. Your Mar-a-Lago Mussolini was soundly defeated by the decent people of this country who have had more than enough of the LIES and bullshit. You have been conned and like most victims of a con man cannot admit it – even to yourself.

          Liked by 2 people

    1. Perhaps. Still, there is the AEI poll that caught my eye. 56% of Republicans think violence is acceptable to effect political change. And this is after the 1/6 assault.

      Was there anything not true in my post?

      Liked by 2 people

      1. The whole post is a lie of omission. First, where has anyone in a position of political influence suggested that those who broke the law on Jan 6 should not be prosecuted for the crimes they actually committed?

        Now, consider the hundreds of violent BLM rioters and looters, even those caught on video committing their crimes, who are not being prosecuted by the Democrat prosecutors in their cities and states.

        https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15341036/hundreds-blm-rioters-looters-vandals-charges-dropped/

        https://nypost.com/2020/08/12/most-charges-against-portland-protesters-wont-be-prosecuted-da/

        https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/st-louis-riots-missouri-attorney-general-says-circuit-attorney-not-prosecuting-criminals/63-3cf5934f-623d-4f71-ac9f-05c2c2882b78

        The list goes on to thousands of clearly guilty looters and violent rioters not prosecuted by Democrat cities.

        Now THAT is the official approval of violence.

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        1. “ …where has anyone in a position of political influence suggested that those who broke the law on Jan 6 should not be prosecuted for the crimes they actually committed?”

          Most of the Republican caucus.

          “ The DOJ is harassing peaceful patriots across the country,” Gosar said.”

          And Johnson, Trump, etc.

          The whole rewriting of events is by the GOP.

          “Tourists”

          Liked by 2 people

          1. Again, where has anyone suggested anyone NOT be prosecuted for the crimes they committed?

            There is a difference between prosecuting a trespasser for trespassing and for treason.

            But I notice you still don’t address the non-prosecution of looters and violent rioters caught on video committing those crimes by Democrat prosecutors in major cities across the country.

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          2. Again, ” The DOJ is harassing peaceful patriots across the country,” Gosar said.”

            I would say this is a call for not prosecuting the “patriots”.

            You are not paying attention to the GOP leadership that is essentially calling the 1/6 assault a guided tour.

            Most of the charges are for assaulting police, vandalism, illegal entry, etc. The more serious charges are for those who planned and organized over months about violence, bring arms, etc.

            We are discussing right wing violence and the popularity among Republicans for it.

            Yes, there is Antifa, which is hardly a Democratic group. They are anarchists who despise everyone. But they have been pretty absent for the last couple of years.

            This is not about BLM. A separate subject.

            Liked by 2 people

          3. Of course its about BLM.

            You raised the issue of excusing parties condoning violence.

            Well, Democrat politicians in large cities across the country are refusing to prosecute violent rioters and looters.

            There you go.

            Regarding 1/6, there were over 100,000 people there, of which 400 entered the capitol building and perhaps a dozen did so conspiring to do more than protest.

            Would that not qualify as “mostly peaceful” as BLM protests and rioters are classified?

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        2. “There is a difference between prosecuting a trespasser for trespassing and for treason”

          “Trespassers?” Again? Not too shameful.

          “Clearly guilty”
          Some obviously are “Clearly guilty” just as Trump is “Clearly guilty” of obstruction of justice. But in the real world of courts, evidence, intent, and due process making a case is not as easy as one might hope. To try to twist this fact to find that just like Republicans, Democrats condone violence is a very good example of the level of sophistry and honesty that you bring to this forum every day.

          Besides that, the violence comes from looters, anarchists and agent provocateurs and not from peaceful demonstrators. You know that but just don’t care to be honest about it.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. “Besides that, the violence comes from looters, anarchists and agent provocateurs and not from peaceful demonstrators. You know that but just don’t care to be honest about it.”

            And yet you accuse the 100,000+ people at the rally Jan 6 of the crimes of the 400 who entered the capitol, and the 400 who entered of treason or insurrection, when perhaps a dozen had such intent and the remainder were, yes, simply trespassers who got carried away in the moment, but committed no theft or vandalism.

            Oh, and when you have video of someone carrying a TV out of a looted store, prosecution really isn’t that difficult.

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          2. You are so Gaslighting the 1/6 attacks.

            You are also “whatabouting” and deflecting.

            Looters, arsonists and police attackers, the few that there were among the thousands upon thousands of demonstrators here and abroad, have been arrested and prosecuted in many, if not most cases.

            But, again, the point is about the conservative poll by AEI and the approval of violence by a majority of Republicans as a means to change the political system.

            So, keeping that in mind, are you in favor of violence to get what you want?

            Liked by 2 people

          3. “And yet you accuse the 100,000+ people at the rally Jan 6 of the crimes of the 400 who entered the capitol”

            Uh, that is simply FALSE. I have never said anything about anybody except for those who broke the law and rampaged through the Capitol.

            And speaking of FALSE, there were a lot more than 400 insurrectionists who illegally entered the Capitol. Already 521 people have been charged and hundreds more who have not yet been identified. The truth is not hard to find. You should try it sometime.

            I am sure that a fair number of these people were just typical Trump dummies who got carried away but the claim that there were only a dozen or so who actually intended to commit major crimes is laughable. Similarly, that the vandalism was limited to such a tiny number is patently ridiculous. The Architect of the Capitol has identified $30 million dollars in costs to deal with what was done. That is a lot of damage by a dozen people.

            And, by the way, “getting carried away” is not a viable defense for ANY of the crimes committed in the Capitol.

            Bottom line, your whataboutism trying to equate the action of a few looters and anarchists with their dumpster fires and spray paints in Portland to an organized violent assault on the Congress is a lame old dog who cannot hunt.

            Liked by 1 person

  1. RE: “Questions: who fires the first shot, at whom, and why?”

    Answer: You are firing the first shot, at Republicans, and for no good reason.

    What do you expect to happen if you persist in demonizing others based on their group identity?

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    1. “What do you expect to happen if you persist in demonizing others based on their group identity?”

      Is that a threat? You have a secret arsenal too?

      What do you mean by “group identity?” Personally, I think there is a very significant qualitative and legal difference between groups that a person belongs to by birth versus a group they choose to belong to.

      My guess is that you feel demonized by some because you CHOOSE to be an unrepentent Trump supporter. Is that feeling going to lead you to violence? I recommend against it. Instead, follow the lead of Stacey Abrams and use lawful and non-violent means to teach your demonizers a lesson. If you can.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. 56% of Republicans agree that violence to achieve political goals is ok.

      If you think that is demonizing then the logical question is “why”.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. The actual quote is: “56% of Republicans agreed that “the traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.”

        Your mischaracterization of it demonizes. For example, using force is not necessarily violence, and feeling a responsibility to preserve the traditional American way of life is not necessarily an endorsement of the use of force.

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          1. I can’t read minds.

            For myself, I would have agreed with the statement in the poll as a general proposition. The Declaration of Independence contains a similar sentiment.

            To you I would say I don’t appreciate being accused of extremism based on my political associations.

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          2. Accusing you of extremism? A stretch I would guess.

            The Declaration of Independence was a precursor to secession and years of war and bloodshed.

            Are you comparing the colonials to the current crop of Republicans? I know you can’t read minds, but you are dismissing the use of force as…what?

            And if you agree with the use of force as a general proposition, then isn’t that an extremist point of view? You are dismissing debate and elections in favor of force.

            Liked by 2 people

          3. RE: “Are you comparing the colonials to the current crop of Republicans?”

            You assume too much. I said that — had I been asked the poll question — I would have agreed with it philosophically.

            RE: “And if you agree with the use of force as a general proposition, then isn’t that an extremist point of view?”

            I didn’t say I agree with the use of force as a general proposition. Please try to be accurate.

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          4. OK, this dummy needs to understand why you agree with the poll question “philosophically” yet deny it as a general proposition.

            Keeping it simple for a simple man, do you agree that force is needed to get your political agenda?

            I am looking for accuracy, not word salads.

            Liked by 2 people

          1. “You obviously can’t say anything.”

            You are right – not about something so astoundingly dumb as “using force is not necessarily violence”

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        1. RE: “OK, this dummy needs to understand why you agree with the poll question “philosophically” yet deny it as a general proposition.”

          I have already answered you. Read the poll question carefully.

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        2. You know he learned how to “parody” from pencil neck and believes it works. Sad part is it only makes him look foolish.

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    3. “What do you expect to happen if you persist in demonizing others based on their group identity?”

      Democrats did not attack the Capitol and they have been demonized since 2015 by Trump and then the Republicans.

      I would expect in a vigorous democracy that debate, elections and legislation would be the route rather than force or violence.

      I distinctly recall your assertion right after 1/6 that the attackers felt they had no choice.

      Sorry, there is always a choice in a country like ours. The insurrectionists were not starving (judging by the average gang member, food was definitely not an issue), broke or victims of night time government raids, summary executions or torture. They can worship freely, carry arsenals if they like and vote without fear of life or limb.

      Interestingly enough both you and Don have tap danced around the primary premise in my post, which is the survey that the majority of Republicans approve of force to enact political change. “Traditional values” means zip unless well defined, but the world “force” is pretty clear.

      Simply put, how would you, and Don, have answered the survey question by AEI? If the answer is yes, then please define the path for returning to traditional values which requires force.

      Liked by 2 people

  2. Interesting debate with a curious observation. Instead of discussing the poll by American Enterprise Institute, a series of deflections regarding BLM, traffic tickets, environmental regulations, the lack of prosecution in some cities of the provocateurs, only 12 gang members actually entered the Capitol (really?)…

    Is there any legitimacy in today’s environment to justify the use of force for political purposes. A majority of Republicans agree that there is in a poll taken after 1/6.

    Yet no one has answered the question regarding when, how and why.

    It must be a sensitive subject that conservatives would rather ignore and call bygones be bygones. And that tells a reasonable observer that something just ain’t right and the crazy uncle in the attic is still driving the GOP.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. RE: “Is there any legitimacy in today’s environment to justify the use of force for political purposes. A majority of Republicans agree that there is in a poll taken after 1/6.”

      The AEI poll didn’t ask that question. It is deluded or dishonest to say that it did.

      Again, the actual question asked for agreement/disagreement with the statement:

      “The traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.”

      What is your answer to that question: Do you agree that the use of force may be necessary to preserve the traditional American way of life?

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      1. “It is deluded or dishonest to say that.”

        Uh, dopey nonsense.
        Len did not distort the import of the question in the least.
        Neither did the article in the LA Times.

        The context of the question is not abstract. It is to gauge the attitudes of the American people in the aftermath of the attempt by Trump forces to use violence to stop the Constitutional processes of our government.

        The answer to the question is “No!”
        Violence to preserve the status quo (“Traditional American Way of Life”) is un-American and un-Christian. Obviously. And that is why it is BAD that so many pitiful Republicans have abandoned those core values in support of Dear Leader’s frustrated ambition to be President-for-life.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. First, you have to define “the traditional American way of life”. What parts of it need force to maintain and why. Is preserving a county fair worth killing for? Or are there specifics more egregious that can’t be solved without force?

        Who decides? Is a liberal ballet star in NY any less traditional than a conservative farmer in Kansas?

        Then we need to define force. Is it a “parking ticket” or is it an assault on Congress with gallows, zip ties and weapons. Is it trying to extort votes by threatening state election officers.

        Liked by 1 person

      1. Those are results, not the questions asked nor the context.

        A properly done push poll can give pretty much any resultyou want. If the poll itself is not published, it never happened.

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        1. “. . . it never happened.”

          Thanks for my morning laugh. The American Enterprise Institute organized a push poll to make “conservatives” look bad. Sure they did! That’s what “leftists” like them do.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. “Buyer’s remorse” is so hard to swallow. I think the Republicans will pay a steep price for its attempt to gain cult status with Chance the Gardner.

            Liked by 2 people

          2. First you say it is not from AEI. It is, and has been an annual feature.

            Then the “push poll” is not published. It was. And it wasn’t a push poll.

            Finally you say there is nothing about support for violence. And, yes, that was the question we are dealing with and the exact question and results were noted in the article.

            My guess is you did not bother to read either the link or the original article. Kind of a shame since it is a pretty interesting read by a conservative institution even if it does poke holes in some preconceived ideas.

            The 56% of Republicans that support using force for political purposes exposes a strange dichotomy.
            BLM is accused of using force to push a social agenda, yet that is what a majority of Republicans approve of as a tool for their own agenda.

            If a majority of the Republican leadership Gaslights the first attempt to effect change through force, what is next?

            Liked by 2 people

        2. “ The American Perspectives Survey (APS) is a series of national opinion surveys devoted to exploring the American experience — the way Americans live, work, and socialize; our everyday concerns and challenges; and the values that define us. These surveys aim to move beyond national headlines and predictable political debates to better understand not only the differences between us, but also the things we have in common.”

          A pretty well established conservative survey about us.

          But, hey, if it doesn’t resonate with your preconceived view, it must be wrong. I understand that and sympathize.

          Liked by 1 person

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