On the value of waiting for facts

Brian Sicknick died of natural causes

So, the only homicide of the capitol riot was that of Ashli Babbitt

31 thoughts on “On the value of waiting for facts

  1. In many instances, deaths during criminal acts are charged to the criminals.

    The insurrectionists killed Ms. Babbitt. They put many police in the hospital, one losing an eye. They were screaming spittle laced threats. Set up gallows. Brought climbing gear for a military style assault and cuffs to restrain prisoners.

    I think whether or not the officer was killed outright is moot. Coincidental perhaps, but not exonerating.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. RE: “I think whether or not the officer was killed outright is moot.”

      That’s convenient. Sicknick’s death wasn’t moot when it sustained the narrative that the Capitol protest was an insurrection. Now that it cannot sustain that narrative, it is “moot.”

      The insurrection narrative is collapsing little by little. We were told Sicknick was killed by being hit with a fire extinguisher. That was a lie. We were told that Capitol protesters were heavily armed with guns. That was a lie. We were told that trespass into the Capitol building was an attempt to overthrow the government. That is turning out to be a lie, as well.

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      1. Not “turning out”, it was known from the beginning which is why, by definition, it was not an insurrection.

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      2. Actually, you a wrong about your assertions. However, defending the violent assault to prevent Congress from carrying out its Constitutional duties to transfer power is kind of pathetic and frankly very telling.

        Liked by 2 people

      3. Bullshit.
        A violent attempt to alter the outcome of an election and stop the lawful processes of government is an insurrection not matter who died of what. What is actually becoming more clear is that the insurrection was planned and that some members of Congress were in on the planning.

        Liked by 1 person

          1. Your reponse = “Humpty Dumpty logic”, sure. Words have meanings and you are trying to twist the meaning of “insurrection.”

            My comment – which you find to be “Humpty Dumpty logic” – is based on the simple FACT that whether a violent attack on the seat of government is an “insurrection” or something else does not depend on who dies of injuries sustained nor does it matter if no one died in the attack. What matters is the intent of the violence and in the case of January 6th the intent was clear – stop the legal processes of our established government and keep an would be usurper in power in spite of the election results.

            Don’t want to believe me. Check ANY dictionary . . . “Insurrection : an act or instance of rising in revolt, rebellion, or resistance against civil authority or an established government.”

            Liked by 1 person

          2. RE: “Words have meanings and you are trying to twist the meaning of ‘insurrection.'”

            YOU are the one playing word games. How many indictments for sedition have been issued?

            None.

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          3. “And no one was charged with either.”

            Not yet.

            But this indictment of Oath Keepers is close enough for government work . . .

            Click to access full.pdf

            As is this indictment of Proud Boy conspirators . . .

            Click to access full.pdf

            “Insurrection” is manifest by a variety of criminal behaviors many of which the “trespassers” have now been indicted for. One of the “trespassers” has now pleaded guilty to “obstruction of an official proceeding” and “entering a restricted building with a dangerous weapon.” These are both felonies and carry sentences of up to 30 years. This particular Oath Keeper is now cooperating with the DOJ.

            Liked by 1 person

    2. If the “insurrectionists” killed Babbitt, then BLM killed Rosenbaum and Huber.

      Rittenhouse certainly had more cause to shoot them than the unnamed Capitol Policeman had to shoot Babbitt.

      Liked by 1 person

        1. Facts used to matter to you.

          Take a plastic bag, put a large can of soup in it, and go out in your yard and hit a melon with it.

          You might want to put on rain gear.

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          1. I was making a point. What kind of soup was it? Muzzle velocity? Caliber of the can? Campbells?

            Rittenhouse was illegally armed, not hired to protect anything, killed people and went home to bed. Cold, crass, immature and a killer.

            Simple as that.

            Now if the right wing wants to make him a hero, not much we can do about that. Just another gang member wannabe. But that is the heart and soul of the right wing conspiracies mongers who frankly are interested only is destroying us.

            And that is also just that simple.

            Liked by 2 people

      1. That was what early investigators told the press. Police were assaulted, beaten, maimed, crushed, dragged, sprayed, stabbed and trampled. In that chaos, details get muddled. But, as MSM does, it was corrected and then just recently reported as “natural causes”.

        Liked by 2 people

  2. So, you think that the officer would have collapsed and died that night absent the violence inflicted on him? Possible but EXTREMELY unlikely.

    However, the fact that your belief is possible creates “reasonable doubt” that would make a prosecution for murder unlikely to succeed. It does NOT exonerate the villains who assaulted the Capitol in their attempt to overthrow the government.

    Liked by 2 people

      1. “Argue with the medical examiner.”

        There is nothing to argue. The medical examiner or any medical professional who is not a doctrinaire jackass would acknowledge that the extreme stress of being under hours of physical and chemical attack is a possible – and even likely – causal antecedent to the “natural causes” that ended the officer’s life. They would also admit the possibility that it would have happened anyway and thus leave reasonable doubt.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. My sister-in-law nearly died of a hemorrhagic stroke at 36 years old. No stress, no exertion.

          YOu can be born with the little berry aneurysms that cause them and they might give way at any time, or still be there when you die of something else.

          In any case, the MME specifically said that if it had been connected to or hastened by the events on the 6th, he would have said so.

          So, again, your argument is with the ME,

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          1. Again there is no argument with the ME whose statements you are twisting. He found that the bear spray did not cause the strokes and that there were no physical injuries that caused them either. He said nothing about the effects of the stress induced by the attacks because there is nothing he could say one way or another. With your vast medical knowledge I am sure you know the effect of stress on blood pressure and what elevated blood pressure can do if you have arterial problems.

            We are left at the same place. Either it was a total coincidence that the officer died the day of the assault or there was a causal link between his sudden death and the stress he had to endure. That the later cannot be proved beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean it did not happen.

            Liked by 2 people

    1. Gaslight is not just a river in Africa.

      Oh, wait, wrong aphorism.

      Gaslight is not just a movie.

      When Ron Johnson reared his racist bona fides about patriots attacking the Capitol I lost my last smidgen of respect for his ilk and fans.

      Liked by 2 people

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