The Pope Has Spoken

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20201003_enciclica-fratelli-tutti.html

This encyclical letter leaves no doubt how Catholics should vote in the coming election. If they truly believe that God inspires the choice of the person that best represents the moral teachings of the Church to be Pope. If they do not believe that, then are they actually Catholics?

32 thoughts on “The Pope Has Spoken

  1. RE: “This encyclical letter leaves no doubt how Catholics should vote in the coming election.”

    Is that fact? How do you think it tells Catholics to vote?

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    1. RE: “Trump is on the wrong side of every issue the Pope discusses. So . . .”

      The Pope doesn’t say that, which is why I asked.

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      1. It would be impolitic for the Pope to be any more explicit. People who can read and know what is going on do not need him to name names. He lays out the moral issues and what he believes is right and wrong. The reader knows very well what Trump’s positions on these issues are.

        Just one example, the Pope decries the demonization of refugees. Trump demonizes them. And by Executive Order he has cut the number of desperate people we will admit under the 1980 Refugee Act each year to a trickle.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. RE: “People who can read and know what is going on do not need [the Pope] to name names.”

        Do you see yourself as one of those people?

        If so, I’d be careful. The Pope can be wrong, you know. And if the Pope can be wrong, “Pope whistlers” can be doubly so.

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        1. “The Pope can be wrong, you know”

          Yes, the Pope can be wrong except when he speaks “Ex Cathedra.” Then, by definition, he is right if you are a Catholic. He is not speaking Ex Cathedra in this encyclical. It is more like a minister’s Sunday sermon offering guidance.

          Anyone who can read and understand the Sermon on the Mount or any of the other moral teachings of Jesus found in the New Testament does not need the Pope to tell them that how Trump behaves and what Trump does on many fronts is contrary to the Christian teaching of most denominations. That is the reason that the charges of hypocrisy directed at the Evangelical community have such bite.

          Liked by 2 people

        2. RE: “Anyone who can read and understand the Sermon on the Mount or any of the other moral teachings of Jesus found in the New Testament does not need the Pope to tell them that how Trump behaves and what Trump does on many fronts is contrary to the Christian teaching of most denominations.”

          I find that impossible to believe. I happen to know Catholics who have read and understand such things who argue that Trump adheres much closer to Catholic doctrine than Biden, who in fact is excommunicated.

          Since my own experience belies your assertion, I can only conclude that you are more fallible than your admittedly fallible Pope. It’s funny, really, this pretension that the Pope’s chair is available to just anyone.

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          1. “Biden, who in fact is excommunicated.”

            That is quite a remarkable “fact.” It is the sort of “fact” that demands that anybody with ANY respect for the truth take 30 seconds to verify. If you had the courtesy to do that, you would have found that it is bullshit – another of the “alternative facts” that feed Trumpism.

            Which of us is “fallible” again?

            You find it impossible to believe that Trumps behaves and acts in ways that are contrary to Catholic teaching? Try a little harder. Anybody who knows anything about Trump and the Church’s teachings could list countless of examples of him doing exactly that. His sordid personal life would yield dozens on its own before you ever got to his policies.

            BTW, your last sentence is a complete mystery with respect to what you are talking about.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. It has been a while now since I pointed out your “error.” Are you going to apologize to the forum for spreading the egregious falsehood that Biden is excommunicated?

            Was it an honest error meaning that you were duped by one of Trump’s propaganda outlets. Or was it a deliberate lie? The former, I hope. Enquiring minds want to know.

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          3. RE: “If you had the courtesy to do that, you would have found that it is bullshit – another of the ‘alternative facts’ that feed Trumpism.”

            My ducks were all in a row when I made the statement. Perhaps if YOU had the courtesy to research the question, you would not be making a fool of yourself.

            I wrote: “Biden, who in fact is excommunicated.” This happens to be true, as follows:

            There are two types of excommunication in the Catholic Church. One is called ferendae sententia in Latin and is imposed by an ecclesiastical court. The other is called latae sententiae and is automatic upon committing the offense. The latter is the basis of Biden’s excommuication and justifies under Catholic doctrine and cannon law the parish in South Carolina denying Biden communion last year:

            https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/29/joe-biden-denied-communion/2494025001/

            There have been calls within the Church to excommunicate Nancy Pelosi in the same way. In fact a case could be made that — for Catholics — supporting the Democratic Party itself might constitute a mortal sin.

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          4. Not necessarily.

            http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P57.HTM#2B

            The crimes for automatic excommunication includes procuring an abortion. I don’t think Biden has procured one.

            So the question is whether Biden has been officially excommunicated is vague at best. It may be the opinion of local priests or bishops in conservative parishes.

            I suggest that withholding communions may have been politically motivated by anti-abortion folks and the local dioceses.

            IMHO

            Liked by 1 person

          5. I see you had to do a deep Google to defend your Trumpish “alternative fact.” Too bad you did not understand what you read. Or are pretending not to?

            Yes there is a form of ex communication in that 14th century rule book called “latae sententiae.” But, it only applies for very specific offenses, none of which Biden has committed. So Biden has NOT been ex communicated under that archaic rule nor by an Ecclesiastical Court.

            I will be generous and presume this is another case of you being duped by the right wing propaganda bubble you inhabit. But learn a lesson. Something like this needs to be thoroughly checked. Common sense if nothing else says this would be a BFD if it were true instead of something you find on scurrilous web sites.

            Liked by 1 person

          6. RE: “Not necessarily.”

            Of course. Not necessarily is always true. But here are three things to consider:

            • Many Catholics argue that a government official who enables abortion violates Can. 1398. The argument goes that enabling abortion in some general way leads materially to the procurement of a specific completed abortion.
            • Procurement of a completed abortion is not the only way to incur latae sententiae excommunication.

            • To be denied communion is to be excommunicated. It is a fact Biden was denied communion. Therefore it is a fact he is excommunicated.

            Non-Catholics tend to think excommunication is equivalent to being officially expelled from the Church. That’s not precisely correct. Excommunication technically means to be “out of communication,” or “out of communion.” It refers to losing the right to partake of the Eucharist. The concept of latae sententiae excommunication is important because it means a person can lose the right of communion through a private sin known only to God.

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          7. The political action of a rogue priest do not count. Ex Communication is a formal process. Period. Your claim is false.

            By the way . . . “Procurement of a completed abortion is not the only way to incur latae sententiae excommunication.” You just made that up.

            Liked by 1 person

          8. RE: “Ex Communication is a formal process. Period. Your claim is false.”

            Nope. Latae sententiae excomunication occurs ipso facto, by the deed itself.

            RE: “‘Procurement of a completed abortion is not the only way to incur latae sententiae excommunication.’ You just made that up.”

            Nope. Instead of making irrelevant accusations against me, why don’t you look it up? Wikipedia, for example, lists at least eight specific ways latae sententiae excomunication is defined in canon law.

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          9. With all due respect, your intellectually dishonest responses are laughable.

            Your argument contains this bullet point . . .

            “Procurement of a completed abortion is not the only way to incur latae sententiae excommunication.”

            Yes, there are seven other other specified “sins” that lead to “latae sententiae” ex communication but NONE of them have anything to do with abortion. That was deliberately dishonest.

            You want to sling lies at Joe Biden. That is the way Trump rolls so why not you?

            When called on the lies you cite a totally obscure provision of canon law to defend your lie.

            When it is pointed out that the canon law that you cite is very specific and doesn’t apply to anything Biden has done you pretend it does because “some people” think it should.

            Now, you blow smoke by referencing the other non-abortion related specifics – such as physically assaulting the Pope – that ipso facto makes you an ex communicant. My statement was accurate – you are just making things up. Starting with “Biden, who in fact is excommunicated.” and going on from there.

            Liked by 2 people

          10. RE: “Yes, there are seven other other specified “sins” that lead to “latae sententiae” ex communication but NONE of them have anything to do with abortion. That was deliberately dishonest.”

            It was Mr. Rothman who brought up abortion, not me. I merely pointed out there are two different ways to be excommunicated, one of them being an ipso facto occurence. You, of course, denied that, wrongly, by asserting there is only one type of excommunication.

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          11. Uh, no.

            You started this back and forth with an outright LIE – Joe Biden has not been Ex Communicated. To defend that LIE, YOU brought up this archaic Canon Law the only relevant part of which is the sin of “procuring” an abortion. You brought up abortion.

            Liked by 1 person

          12. RE: “To defend that LIE, YOU brought up this archaic Canon Law the only relevant part of which is the sin of ‘procuring’ an abortion. You brought up abortion.”

            Nope. Mr. Rothman brought up abortion by citing Can. 1398.

            In response, I merely noted that abortion is not the only way to incur latae sententiae excommunication. Which happens to be both true and a fact you denied.

            I can appreciate being ignorant about latae sententiae as a principle. I was ignorant, too, until I asked a practicing Catholic about Biden’s status in the Church, and it came up.

            I find it surprising, though, that a Catholic such as yourself seems unfamiliar with the basic requirements for communion. You were taught, weren’t you, that you mustn’t take communion when you have sins for which you have not been forgiven, usually through confession?

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    1. It has come to that. Everything is about violence now.

      It sickens me to think that people think that the right to bear arms is the right to attack political opponents, when in fact, the only uses of real militias was to protect our nation from unruly rebellions.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Well, Paul caught the reference.

        But in truth, I don’t really care what the Pope thinks. He is just a small minded, ignorant man who thinks he knows everything because people kiss his ring.

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          1. “Apparently Biden is not one of them?”

            Uh, on what subject or public policy does Biden disagree with Pope Francis. If you recall, Pope Francis has disciplined a number of bishops over the issue of secular abortion law. He understands that allowing people to make their own moral choices without compulsion from the state it not antithetical to Catholicism. Even if you don’t.

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  2. Don’t know why youse guys is arguing over who the Pope wants for President based on his positions. He’s about to have 6 Supreme Court Justices. A 6-3 decision trumps any president any day.

    Being an atheist, I know that I’ll never have a candidate who espouses similar beliefs, but if you’re a non-Catholic Xian, you should be a little bit concerned.

    Liked by 1 person

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