A better understanding of “deep state”…perhaps

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/16/us/flat-earth-conference-conspiracy-theories-scli-intl/index.html

We might now have a better understanding why Trump can shoot someone and still be loved.

” A YouGov survey of more than 8,000 American adults suggested last year that as many as one in six Americans are not entirely certain the world is round…”

Around 25%, give or take, of the electorate voted for our president in 2016. If 18% think the round earth is a hoax, a government sponsored one at that, we may have found the impenetrable core of the regime’s supporters. Evidently, no amount of evidence is sufficient to convince these folks about a simple truth that has been known for centuries. Or 3 years.

All joking aside, somewhat at least, the article does give a person pause. The survey went on to say only 7% of Brazilians believed the earth was flat. Perhaps we are too well educated and too prosperous?

Oh, well. Another week of hearings is on the menu.

27 thoughts on “A better understanding of “deep state”…perhaps

  1. Not too surprising.

    After all, a significant number of Americans believe giving billions of dollars to third world dictators will control the climate.

    Or that Epstien killed himself.

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    1. Not to mention those who still believe Obama was born in Nigeria or Kenya or Mars. That the Clintons are the most prolific serial killers in the world.

      Wait, we elected one of those.

      Liked by 5 people

  2. More seriously, if you think that unelected bureaucrats using their positions to substitute their chosen polices for those of elected leaders is not a problem, then you have a far worse disconnection with reality than Flat Earthers.

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    1. If that were the case, I might agree.

      There has been a lot of speculation of a Deep State, but very little substantial, or any, evidence other than in alt-right websites and FOX.

      Perhaps Iran-Contra might be a closer example.

      The occasional rogue bureaucrat is always a problem. But an organized Deep State that just happened to pop up in the last 3 years?

      Giuliani and his parallel channels are the real threat. Backdoor smearing of career, exemplary diplomats is more Deep State.

      But that seems to be ok with Trump supporters.

      Liked by 2 people

        1. Appreciate the link. It was for all 1700 or so pages. For my attention span that is a bit much.

          However, I did go to Wikipedia to get some background on Quigley.

          Apparently he was a favorite of conspiracy theorists, although there seemed to be some controversy in that he was cherry picked.

          This quote stands out from Wikipedia:

          “Quigley is also cited by several other authors who assert the existence of powerful conspiracies. Jim Marrs, whose work was used as a source by Oliver Stone in his film JFK, cites Quigley in his book Rule By Secrecy, which describes a conspiracy linking the Milner Group, Skull and Bones, the Trilateral Commission, the Bavarian Illuminati, the Knights Templar, and aliens who posed as the Sumerian gods thousands of years ago. Pat Robertson’s book The New World Order cites Quigley as an authority on a powerful conspiracy. Conservative activist Phyllis Schlafly has asserted that Bill Clinton’s political success was due to his pursuit of the “world government” agenda he learned from Quigley.”

          I generally don’t believe in conspiracies. When more than one person is involved, a leak will be inevitable.
          Especially when they are purported to be as far reaching and powerful as many seem to believe.

          The more dictatorial a government, the greater the belief in conspiracies. Turkey is a good example of a population that has little or no faith in any information, whether government, private or media. So conspiracies abound. Considering that Erdogan has jailed most honest journalists, the trust in media is destroyed. The same with Putin, though he seems to prefer murder.

          This is why I think Trump is our worst enemy. He is following the route of all dictators in labeling the media as the “enemy” with the admitted agenda of confusing his own countrymen as to what is true or not.

          Yes, our media is messy. But it is still freewheeling for the most part. And free. You can pretty much criticize anyone in power any time and not face persecution or prosecution. Those who don’t agree should read about the China policy against the Uighurs. It was just leaked as 500 pages of detailed procedures to destroy them and confuse the public at the same time.

          We have a president who believes in conspiracies and has acted on them for foreign policy. That is a huge danger. He is also paranoid and has said so by comments that he is treated so unfairly. More so than any other president in history.

          My post was a bit whimsical. My point about conspiracies is not.

          Liked by 3 people

          1. You don’t believe that?

            Name me instances, with the rare exceptions that were eventually adjudicated the other way, where that has happened.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. RE: “Name me instances, with the rare exceptions that were eventually adjudicated the other way…”

            Sharyl Attkison and James Rosen come to mind, as does Roger Stone; also any number of well- and lesser-known citizen pundits who have been deplatformed from YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and other social media venues.

            I’m sure you can rationalize whatever incident I name.

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          3. Facebook, YouTube, etc. are not government. They can ban you just like any business because they set the rules, but they can’t prosecute or imprison you. That is a huge difference.

            It is not a matter of rationalization. It is a matter of human rights as regards to the state, not private enterprise. If Don wants to ban me from this site, that is his right. He is paying the freight.

            However, Trump cannot ban me from any social media that is official, because he is not paying and it is the government.

            Surely you can see the difference.

            Liked by 2 people

      1. I don’t know that the Deep State is all that organized.

        I think there’s just a lot of Group Think and everyone has everyone else’s number on their cell phone.

        When a policy comes along they don’t like they just call each other and come up with an ad hoc work-around.

        There’s no need to conspire when everyone involved has the same point of view.

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        1. “ When a policy comes along they don’t like they just call each other and come up with an ad hoc work-around.”

          Who is “they”? That sounds like a Trumpism. “Everyone knows that.”

          There are millions of bureaucrats. Are you saying they all think the same?

          Do all dentists think alike?

          BTW, what happens when a president, such as Bush for example, circumvents the laws passed by the American people and appoints cabinet buddies who actively don’t enforce the regulations?

          Are those appointees a Deep State working to undermine our citizens?

          Liked by 2 people

        2. Yeah, there is some “Group Think” going on in our State Department and Security Services. For example, they “groupthink” that Putin re-assembling the USSR by force is a bad thing for our national security and that we should try to thwart his ambitions as much as we can. It is obvious that this Group Think is just about the opposite of Trump’s actual policy. So yeah, they slow walk his desires and try to ignore his tweets. Thank God! He will be gone soon, but the United States will endure.

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          1. The Constitution says nothing about how the bureaucracy should behave. The existence of such vast organizations was at least a century in the future. If the President does not like any of them or what they are doing he is free to remove them. Our Constitution is best protected if people are not just automatons and stand up for what they believe.

            You really want a King or an Emperor and not a President constrained by norms and the Constitution. You probably think it is just fine for the President and his agents to ignore Congressional subpoenas. After all, they are not fans.

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      2. Re: “There’s no need to conspire when everyone involved has the same point of view.”

        Very true. At the same time, one shouldn’t dismisss the Deep State as mere “speculation [without] substantial, or any evidence,” especially without familiarity of the topic. Quigley is a respected source, not a conspiracy theorist, even if others have used his work to spin conspiracy theories.

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  3. A question for the group: How do you know the Earth is round, like a sphere? Have you proved it to yourself, as opposed to just believing what you are told?

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    1. How do you know that your cold is caused by bacteria and not just an evil spell? Have you proved it to yourself or just believe what you are told?

      For that matter, how do you know that a Trump is president. Have you met him in the White House?

      Liked by 3 people

        1. Which is why a person should not get antibiotics for a cold. And that is a whole ‘nuther debate now that superbugs are becoming a serious issue.

          I do stand, or sit, corrected. Thank you and mea culpa.

          Liked by 1 person

    2. Well, it was proved to me when I, using a telescope, followed Echo across the night sky, and then waited some 90 minutes to see it and follow it again on a different path across the sky.

      Mathematically, an orbit about a spherical object fit the observations far better than an orbit about a disk (really bizarre gravitational field on that) or similarly shaped object. Just as important to the proof, people who have circumnavigated the world have not reported any sudden changes in the distance to the horizon or inexplicable weight gains and losses.

      I guess, in the absence of an ability for you to understand and/or solve the equations of orbital mechanics and general physics, you are forced to believe those who can, or just appear willfully ignorant. Tough choice, but then that’s why life will always be difficult for certain people.

      Liked by 2 people

    3. The “theory” that the earth is a sphere makes testable predictions that anyone can observe. For example, you can watch a sailing ship slip below the horizon as it grows more distant. You do not have to take the word of Eratosthenes who used empirical evidence to confirm this old theory from Aristotle in 200 BC . You can prove it yourself.

      https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/ancient-greeks-proved-earth-round-eratosthenes-alexandria-syene-summer-solstice-a8131376.html

      Liked by 1 person

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