While I agree with the substance of this item, what interests me most is its portrayal of the intersection between thoughtless assumption and strict due process.
Progressives in Virginia In Position to Overrule Parental Objections to Invasive Child Gender Dysphoria Treatment
Published
Tidewater News and Opinion Forum 
The Pilot editorial in question had NOTHING to do with actual treatment. It had to do with a desired policy that teachers would have to “out” children to their parents if they were trusted by a student to talk to them about who they are. Bacons commentary and your depiction of it are disingenuous as it does not describe the editorial accurately. The “substance” of the item is predicated on some sort of inference concerning the treatment of gender dysphoria, which is not even mentioned in the Pilot.
The headline is EXTREMELY misleading, as is your use of it here. There is no intersection between thoughtless assumption and strict due process.
The piece on Bacons is not in any way, shape, or form related to the editorial and he should be ashamed for attempting to deceive. As should you, for following it up by posting it here.
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Amen!
And what is up with these people and their obsession with gender issues? Very odd. IMHO.
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They have to attempt to distract from “other” things.
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It may be that simple. Or something a little deeper.
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I don’t have access to The Pilot, so I can’t assess whether BR treats the editorial fairly. I don’t think it matters, though, because BR’s substantive premise is that “a child in Virginia must have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria as a predicate for mental health treatment. And, of course, for physically invasive treatments.”
Do you not agree that a child’s parents should be informed of any medical diagnosis a child obtains through school?
Or, more specifically to Gov. Youngkin’s policy endorsement, that schools should “tell parents about their kid’s transexual identity expressions at school”? Wouldn’t such expressions indicate the need to obtain a medical diagnosis?
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Or, more specifically to Gov. Youngkin’s policy endorsement, that schools should “tell parents about their kid’s transexual identity expressions at school”? Wouldn’t such expressions indicate the need to obtain a medical diagnosis?
There is no black and white answer to that question. Too many variables.
The general problem is that not every child lives in a Leave it to Beaver family environment. And many children and adolescents have strong reason to not trust their parents. A professional working with children at school should not be hamstrung with one size fits all regulations. Each case is different. That is the general problem with politicizing such matters with the kind of partisan headline you have chosen to post.
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RE: “There is no black and white answer to that question. Too many variables.”
Seems pretty black and white to me:
If the school thinks a student is endangered by his parents, child protective services must be informed.
BR notes: “school psychologists are not licensed for clinical practice.”
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Black and white? So a kid goes to school, tells a trusted teacher that he/she has questions about his/her identity. The teacher tells the student the parents should be asked. The kid then says, “My parents have been pretty clear about how they feel about this issue and I do not feel safe talking to them about it.” What is the teacher to do? Tell the parents? Tell an administrator to contact the parents? Let’s just throw the kid back into a situation where the child feels unsafe talking to his/her parents about their issues.. By that point, contacting CPS would be too late.
School psychologists are NOT mentioned in the piece.
Go buy a copy of the paper and read it. it was in the print edition this morning.
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RE: “What is the teacher to do?”
Two things the teacher can’t do are:
Ignore any potential for child endangerment.
The teacher or school administrator will have to make a judgement call. They can always contact CPS to inform the parents.
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So an adolescent goes to the school counselor and asks about his or hers strange feelings for the same sex. Needed just to talk since parents seem threatening around the subject.
Boom, call in the psychiatrists, call the parents and inform the student body…(you know this comes out).
Next case.
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“They can always contact CPS to inform the parents.”
You really miss the idea of a young person having a trusted adult they can turn to when they have no hope at home.
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Once again you are completely off base. You have NO concern for the welfare of the child. All that matters is the parents.
But when it comes to abortion, all that matters is the child; mother be damned for getting herself raped or, G-d forbid, be carrying a fetus that has little to no chance of survival outside the womb.
Homosexuality is NOT a mental disease, contrary to what SOEM people say here.
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RE: “Boom, call in the psychiatrists, call the parents and inform the student body…(you know this comes out).”
That’s not what I said. I said there are two things the teacher can’t do. I imagine a school counselor could discuss same-sex attraction to some extent, but the counselor cannot ignore the need for a medical diagnosis or the potential for child endangerment.
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Not one part of the editorial talks about who is most qualified to make any kind of diagnosis.
Your entire post and that of Bacon’s is built on the premise that the Pilot editorial was advocating for teachers to diagnosis gender dysphoria. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
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RE: “Not one part of the [Pilot] editorial talks about who is most qualified to make any kind of diagnosis.”
Go back and read what I wrote: “I don’t think it matters, though, because BR’s substantive premise is that ‘a child in Virginia must have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria as a predicate for mental health treatment. And, of course, for physically invasive treatments.'”
Do you think schools should be entitled to break the law in the interests of promoting your peculiar ideas about gender and psychiatry?
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Ah, but it DOES matter. If you (or Bacon) wanted to talk about the subject, then start from a different angle and don’t misrepresent what the Pilot editorial was actually talking about. NONE of it mentioned anything about who is responsible for making any kind of diagnosis.
I will say it again, YOU AND BACON MISREPRESENTED THE EDITORIAL TO PURSUE SOME AGENDA THAT HASN’T EVEN COME UP IN DISCUSSIONS ANYWHERE BUT IN THE ANTI-TRANS MINDS OF THOSE WHO TRY TO SAY THEY LOVE THE CHILDREN BUT IN ACTUALITY THEY LOVE CONTROL.
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Lefties trying to indoctrinate and then mutilate our kids because they think they know better is a very serious issue. It’s in the left wing’s genes to desire more fruit cakes among them by convincing children as young as grade school that are really not their real gender and they can choose what they want. You don’t pacify mental illness, you treat it or don’t create the problem in the first place. Little Jimmy says, I’m a girl? Pull his pants down, point to his penis and say only boys have those, sorry you are a boy, now live with it and point to the center of the bowl from now on. Case closed.
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RE: “Little Jimmy says, I’m a girl? Pull his pants down, point to his penis and say only boys have those, sorry you are a boy, now live with it and point to the center of the bowl from now on. Case closed.”
You’ll be accused of being harsh or insensitive, but the message you describe could be delivered by a psychiatrist.
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Or a parent who cares.
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If all parents cared, then there would be no issue. But not all parents are as loving and understanding as you. Oh, wait. No you aren’t. Your kid comes to you says he or she is gay, and you toss them out on their ass.
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Oh BS. Do I sound like someone who gives a crap about your pansy parenting?
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My pansy parenting taught my family to be accepting of others for who they are. Your hate will be passed down for generations. Even Jesus would probably damn you to hell because forgiveness just isn’t possible for you.
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A real psychiatrist would never handle a situation in the manner described. “Delivering a message” of “You can’t be who you are” is not how psychiatry works. Conversion therapy should be illegal and care, proper care, should be provided to those who require, want, or need it.
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See? The enabler of left wing indoctrination speaks. Get near my kid with that trash and we have a very big problem.
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If you are accusing me of indoctrination, then FU. Allowing people to live as they are without harm to others is NOT indoctination. It’s called acceptance.
And in case you missed the first time, take your hate and shove it.
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RE: “‘You can’t be who you are’ is not how psychiatry works.”
Maybe not, but helping someone accept reality is exactly how psychiatry works.
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Whose reality? Yours? The psychiatrist’s? THe hateful poster on this thread’s?
You just proved that you are clueless when it comes to treatment of mental issues. Stick to classification. You suck at that too. But you haven’t been completely stupid about it.
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RE: “Whose reality?”
There is only one reality.
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And that is the problem. YOU actually believe that. Judgy little so and so.
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Is there a reality where you “cure” a transgender child by pulling down their pants and exposing their genitals?
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RE: “Is there a reality where you ‘cure’ a transgender child by pulling down their pants and exposing their genitals?”
Yes, in the sense that genitals are a reliable sex marker. There are others.
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You pull down the pants of a child that is not yours and you are probably going to have to get a very good attorney.
And woe be to you if little Jimmy is really a tomboy.
You’d better study for the priesthood…
😇
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Here is a real life situation that maybe will get you to see reality.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/sore-loser-utah-parents-spark-investigation-to-see-if-winning-girl-is-transgender?ref=home
But then again, you have no clue. I hope your kids and grandkids stay on the “straight” and narrow.
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Leave my kids and grandkids out of it.
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Then don’t talk about others. Your hate is being passed down. I feel sorry for your progeny.
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RE: “Your hate is being passed down.”
I’m more concerned about YOUR hate.
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I hate those who promote hate. You got a problem with that? Stop spreading hate and I won’t call you out for it.
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“Leave my kids and grandkids out of it.”
Sniff. Sniff.
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“Lefties trying to indoctrinate and then mutilate our kids because they think they know better is a very serious issue.”
It is also non-existent, except in your hateful very little mind.
“It’s in the left wing’s genes to desire more fruit cakes among them by convincing children as young as grade school that are really not their real gender and they can choose what they want.”
And it appears to be in your genes to HATE. Period. You’re a bigotted troll and I find it hard to believe that there are still people in this country so determined to make everybody straight and white that they spew this nonsense.
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Blow it out your your know what with your racist tripe and gaslighting. I don’t care what you think and a vast majority of parents don’t either. You can throw “hate” around all you want but not only does it make you a bona fide fool but it proves it.
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Did I hit a nerve? Sure seems like it. If you can’t admit the hate you toss around here regularly, maybe YOU should be seeing a psychiatrist. DO you have latent issues you need to talk about with a professional? Just a thought based on every hateful thing you have said about anyone that is not white, straight and Christian.
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Are you happy being the true racist among us? We all know your kind, using race for profit and your spawn will continue the path of vic t imhood.
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So now it’s anti-Semitism. And attempts to spin YOUR hatred in a way that I am a racist. Laughable little snowflake logic. Good for you. True colors blowing up a,l over the thread.
You don’t like the other. You make it clear that if it ain’t white, cis, adn Christian they are deserving of your vileness.
Got news for ya, BUB(ba). Your kind are dwindling and the future generations are seeing people like you for what you are. ANd they are changing the world. And you and your kind are scared shitless by that.
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The first transsexual I knew was in Louisiana, long before they were anything but a rarity. Lucy was a post-surgical male to female and her surgeon was an artist and she was highly committed to weight control and depilation. So much so that she made her living as an exotic dancer in the waterfront bars in Morgan City, LA. Not as a drag queen, she passed for a rather attractive woman who danced wearing an albino Boa Constrictor and nothing else. She fooled pretty much everyone, but it’s hard to fool a dentist up close and she was my patient. My assistant and I knew almost instantly and she knew we knew. She asked me how and I told her that I could see the faint scars from the thyroid cartilage shave that reduced her Adam’s apple and that there are subtle differences in the upper incisors. I told her I could feminize her incisors with just a little sculpting and she was quite happy with the result.
In fact, Lucy seemed to be a happy person who was living her best life. Right up until she killed herself.
That’s my problem with this advocacy and secrecy. Transsexuals, no matter how good the care they get is, have a very high suicide rate, that that remains true whether they transition or not.
Not telling parents that their child suffers from gender dysphoria is no different than the school nurse detecting a cardiac arrythmia and hiding that from the parents because the kid wants to play basketball.
Failing to tell parents about a potentially fatal health issue is reckless endangerment.
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I would venture that a significant percentage of the higher suicide rate you speak of has more to do with society than with in genetic predisposition to suicide. Accordingly, a political party that seeks to demonize the transgendered and actual deny their existence is a far greater risk to their lives than a school professional doing their best to listen and counsel. In short a political party that reflects the attitudes of, say, a Mr. Smith are the people who should be accused of reckless endangerment.
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I didn’t posit a genetic predisposition.
I’m not a shrink but I would suggest there are issues of confusion involved. That and insecurity,
Note that when my assistant and I saw through Lucy’s transition, neither of us said anything or pointed, it was little more than exchanged eye contact, neither of us would have done anything to make Lucy uncomfortable. But she instantly knew we knew. That’s how on guard she was to being found out. Imagine living your life like that, always on guard.
I don’t claim to know what went on in Lucy’s mind, or why, when so outwardly happy with her choice and so successful at it, she thought she had reason to kill herself.
And you don’t either, nor do teachers or even other transexuals. or parents, but the parents are the ones with the duty and the authority to care for their children, so getting between them and the child is arrogant and reprehensible.
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You don’t know if her gender issues had anything to do with her suicide. A bad break up with a partner? Guilt about something else? Mental illness unrelated to her gender issues? You just don’t know. You state you don’t know what went on in her mind, but you just appear to ASSUME it was about her transition. Dangerous territory.
Getting between abusive parents and their children is a duty. If by talking to their parents about an issue causes that kind of abuse, who does the child turn to? That’s not arrogance; its protection.
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There is a difference between knowing and having reason to believe.
Given the very high suicide rates associated with gender dysphoria(a term I don’t think had even been invented when I knew Lucy) it is a very good guess, especially since she was so healthy otherwise(very much into fitness, no drugs, no smoking and a really nice person)
But why do you presume parents will be abusive? Why do you think teachers are less likely to have an adverse agenda than the child’s parents?
I don’t know if you have a Twitter account, but if you do, follow ‘Libs of Tiktok’ and you will see that there are a lot of teachers who project their own sexual difficulties on their students(and a lot of teachers who are horrrified by it)
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Libs of TikTok is the Sacramento Bee site on that SM drivel site. I wouldn’t waste my time with either. I suggest you stop doing the same because you keep trying to post it as a reality.
It is like when you claim a certain site or group does not represent the Right or the Libertarians. Taking the worst of any side of the discussion is not helpful and nor does it represent the majority.
And if you dig deeper, maybe you will find that the LIBS are not Liberals, but Libertarians run amok.😇
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Libs of Tiktok does not create content. It searches the TikTok advocacy groups and other posts and aggregates them on Twitter and Facebook.
It represents what the extremists say among themselves when they think there are no adults in the room
It is amazing how many elementary school teachers are seeking to boast of their sexual choices to their students.
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“… there are a lot of teachers who project their own sexual difficulties on their students…”
There are 3.2 million K-12 teachers in the US. “A lot on TikTok” might be a few dozen or a few hundred if you are really bored.
I can’t find the link now, but a while back I posted one that interviewed teachers all over the country, flyover particularly, and the overwhelming consensus was that all this hoopla about CRT, transgender issues, racial history, banned books is not even an issue to them.
Selling fear and rage is what the modern GOP runs on.
I find an interesting, if imperfect, parallel to the abortion issue here. We have a bunch of probably straight old men, and a few women of indeterminate ages, discussing what is best for folks that we have absolutely no clue as to what they are enduring regarding sexual dysphoria or same sex attraction.
I think part of the reason is that we are a very puritanical society. Always have been. But now we are finding some daylight peeking through that curtain and we are uncomfortable, unsettled and in some cases outraged. You can bet that these nonconforming sexual identities are not new. What is new is that these folks are not relegated to leading double lives just to survive.
How we handle this going forward will say a lot about us as a society.
IMO
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You have a point regarding the numbers as compared to the whole, but even if there are only a few hundred zealots around the country, they can do a lot of harm,
I just really don’t see why they are so determined to pass their problems onto a new generation.
And I don’t see why the Teacher’s Union boosts them.
I’m pretty much a live and let live guy. But recruiting children into a very difficult life is unconscionable. I keep my sexuality to myself, why can’t they?
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“Recruiting children”?
Really? Did you believe Pizzagate too?
Ghislaine Maxwell recruited children for Epstein.
It is pretty hard to change sexual preferences or identity for someone. Mostly impossible I would think.
Recruiting is just a GOP fear based talking point.
Now, don’t get me wrong. There should be connections between parents and schools that are best for a child. And in a perfect world, that would be already, well, perfect. But it is not since human nature intervenes.
If everyone were live and let live with regards to sexual preferences and other differences in lifestyles that are not dangerous to others we wouldn’t have a topic of discussion.
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All I can recommend for you is to look at Libs of Tiktok’s FB or Twitter pages and you will see recruitment is quite real.
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Is there a recruitment bonus?😇
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Oh, you found something.
He was suggesting to the camera how to make the classroom safe and inclusive for the LBGT students. You prefer dangerous and exclusive?
Recruiting straight children to be gay?
Get serious.
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Here’s another. there are about a dozen every day
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I guess I have to have a Twitter account to view this one.
I get your point.
Two things come to mind:
Editing and acting.
Even so, we can both find loonies or far fetched videos on both sides. Out of 330 million people.
The notion that people can be converted to be gay or transgender is a scare tactic.
Look at the failed efforts to convert gays to straight. You think it works better in reverse?
Are we better in a more accepting society than not? Just look at ads in the media. Lots of mixed race couples, gay couples, etc. A few decades ago, or less really, none would have been shown. Now we hardly notice.
It takes time. Cultural norms change very slowly. It might take generations. Civil Rights comes to mind.
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If activists con confused pre-pubescent children into taking puberty blockers and hormones, which they are actively doing, we will never know if their ship would have righted itself at puberty.
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“If activists con confused pre-pubescent children into taking puberty blockers and hormones, which they are actively doing, ”
Are they? Or are you just wishcastig?
If what you BELEIVE to be happening is real, then parents should raise a fuss. But seeing as no fuss is being raised, then I have a tendency to believe that the crap you are claiming to be true is in a simple word, NOT.
And a pre-pubescent isn’t going to be able to get puberty blockers without 1) an actual diagnosis, and 20 parental permission.
Your fantasy world of ACTUAL groomers and the like is just that, in this instance; a fantasy to drive a hateful wedge between those who want to live their lives and those who don’t believe that they should.
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Arrogant and reprehensible?
There are so many variables to consider that such a blanket statement cannot be reasonable. Each case and each family situation is different. Why are you always so quick to attack the character of others? It is a puzzlement.
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Note that the criticism of the Youngkin policy is across the board. There is nothing there about acting only in cases where there is reasonable cause to believe the parents will act badly. It is presumed they will and that teachers should hide gender dysphoria as standard practice..
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Not rally. The teachers should be able to choose if the situation is SAFE for the child to discuss it with the parents. If it is not safe for the student to do so, what are they to do? THe policy takes the choice of protecting the child away from the teacher. If it were an abuse case, they are required to report it to CPS.
This is just another attack on public education shielded by the idea that teachers are not doing right by the parents by not doing right by the students.
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Hiding important health risks from parents is reprehensible.
Remember that teacher sees the child a couple of hours a day and not at all when the kid moves on to the next grade.
The parents have to live with the failure to intervene in these problems for a lifetime.
Unless there is enough reason to call in CPS, a teacher who conceals a serious health risk from parent should be fired, if not jailed.
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RE: “Failing to tell parents about [their child’s] potentially fatal health issue is reckless endangerment.”
Exactly right. It shouldn’t be hard to formulate a transexual policy for schools on the basis of that principle. Further, it should be easy to acknowledge that the schools have no right, either ethically or legally, to keep mental illness and related physical treatments secret from a child’s parents.
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Letting a parent know that a child is showing signs of suicidal tendencies is a LOT different than a student having a trusted adult to confide in about their true self.
Your statement indicates you believe the homosexuality is a “mental illness”. Only a psychiatrist that practices the unhealthy treatment known as “conversion therapy” would agree with you. That is a vast minority of treatment specialists.
And i will say this one more time: There was no mention in the Pilot editorial about any kind of treatment. It was about how bad a policy it would be for teachers to be forced to “out” their students.
YOU people just don’t get it. And from what I have read on this thread, some never will.
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No, you never will get it because you want to control other parents kids. You have NO right to interfere with my children and it is my right to know everything about them.
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NO, I don’t want other parents controlling kids that aren’t theirs. And I want YOU to stay as far aways as possible from ANYONE I give a damn about. You’re dangerous to anyone that doesn’t look, love or pray like you.
If one of your kids or grandkids came up to you and said that they were gay or trans, how would you react? Ask yourself THAT question. Don’t say it could never happen because YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT.
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RE: “Your statement indicates you believe the homosexuality is a ‘mental illness’.”
I don’t know why you think that. We are talking about transexuals, meaning people who suffer from a legitimate mental illness which may require treatment.
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It is part and parcel of the same discussion. And because of your misuse and misrepresentation of the Pilot editorial, you have tried to spin it elsewhere.
Not all trans people are gay, and not all gay people are trans. But the discussion raised by the editorial is about how a teacher should handle the situation. No regard is given by you or Roberts about the realities of life outside your own walls.
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“We are talking about transexuals, meaning people who suffer from a legitimate mental illness”.
So you think all transexuals have a legitimate mental illness?
I know three transexuals, ages between 28 and 45. Two have made the transition from Assigned Female at Birth to male, including hormone therapy and surgeries. The other was Assigned Male at Birth, and while has not has surgery, has had hormone therapy and goes through life as a female.
All are productive members of society, none would consider that they have any mental illness whatsoever. Only that they were somehow given the wrong body at birth.
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No body is “assigned”, you are what you are at birth and cannot change that. Seems you hang with some pretty shaky people to know 3 lunies.
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….”to know 3 lunies.”
you just have to use derogatory words to sdescribe people, don’t ya?
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