Speculation

Biden’s administration claims he knew nothing in advance of the FBI raid on Mar A Lago. On the off chance that this is not a lie, then why would the FBI do something so controversial without running it past the boss?

It may well be that the FBI is covering its own tracks independent of Biden. It is easier to get forgiveness than permission.

In Oct 2020, Trump declassified the Crossfire Hurricane and Russia Collusion hoax papers, subject to redactions the FBI requested in Jan 2020. In Dec 2020 he ordered the DOJ to produce a redacted version and to release it to the public.

At the time he left office, that had not been done and remains undone to this day. The FBI does not want those papers to see the light of day. The Biden administration likely agrees.

It may well be that the purpose of the raid was to recover the unclassified but unredacted copy of those documents in Trumps possession to prevent him from releasing it prior to the 2022 elections.

177 thoughts on “Speculation

  1. Well done. I was preparing a similar post making much the same point:

    Source: A Son of the New American Revolution.
    https://sonar21.com/understanding-why-the-deep-state-is-terrified-of-trumps-documents/

    The writer speculates that documents stored at Mar-a-Lago were/are embarassing to the CIA, FBI and NSA. Consequently, the purpose of the FBI raid last week was to remove/disappear those documents.

    The speculation makes sense to me. I recommend exploring the background material, a series of four essays published at Conservative Treehouse (link in the source; see Parts 3 and 4 especially).

    In particular the speculation holds that Trump’s presidential papers contained copies of original Crossfire Hurricane documents that have not yet been released to the public, and which illustrate malfeasance by the FBI and other parts of the intelligence community.

    One of Trump’s last actions before leaving office was to order (by memo) further declassification and public release of Crossfire Hurricane materials he had in his possession. Trump, of course, was not around to see the order carried out, but there’s a wrinkle.

    If Crossfire Hurricane was a rogue operation as many allege, records that prove the allegation would a) exonerate Trump in the face of various public criticisms and b) legitimize various lawsuits the former president or his supporters might seek to file against the deep state.

    An interesting aside is that Trump’s self interest in the Crossfire Hurricane materials must have compromised his ultimate authority to declassify them. (To classify or declassify any information, national security must be the only consideration.)

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  2. It is hard not to mock such nonsense but, I will try to play it straight.

    So, Trump was keeping materials that confirm his laughable lies about Russia-gate but kept them secret even though his last act was a memo on the night of January 19, 2021 declassifying them? And it has taken more than a week for this “speculation” to make the rounds in “conservative” media where it appears you found it? Any explanation why (a) he did not make them public immediately, (b) why he did not make them public during the 18 months haggling with NARA, and (c) why he did not make them public immediately when the FBI supposedly seized them?

    Here is my speculation. Imaginary documents exonerating a criminal are much more useful politically than real ones that don’t.

    As an aside, if you had watched the January 6th committee hearings you would know that Trump’s own staff of the “best people” did not take his rage tweets as serious orders and did not act on them. Including tweets about declassifications. Here is testimony from his Chief-of-staff about that October 6th tweet in an earlier court case…

    “The president indicated to me that his statements on Twitter were not self-executing declassification orders and do not require the declassification or release of any particular documents,” Meadows said in a sworn court statement.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-s-tweet-total-declassification-russia-docs-not-order-white-n1244022

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Read more carefully.

      Trump declassified the Russia Hoax papers in Oct 2020 and ordered the release of a REDACTED version in Dec 2020. Not Jan 19 2021.

      The copy Trump presumably had was NOT REDACTED and thus not ready for release.

      Trump was following the standard declassification procedures with these papers, including ordering the redactions requested by the FBI.

      So, the FBI never followed through on the ordered release of those declassified and redacted papers.

      It opposes release of the Affidavit supporting the warrant.

      It opposes an independent review of the seized papers to sort out privileged communications.

      But the FBI has nothing to hide??

      Though you’ll never admit it, even you have to smell the stench.

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          1. “That would be the order to release the redacted version ordered in October 2020”

            Once again, nobody in the government – even his closest non-deep-state aides – took his rage tweets to be orders to be obeyed. This document at the midnight hour of his Presidency is the only order that meets the formal requirements for him to declassify material but became moot at noon on the 20th.

            Again you have not addressed the main objection to your “speculation.” If the stolen papers exonerated him and he had declassified them per the memo of the 19th cited, why sit on them without comment for 18 months? And why not mention this claim IMMEDIATELY when the FBI took them away?

            Liked by 2 people

          2. “Because he would not release the unredacted version he presumably had.”

            Do you really believe that if he had something damning, he wouldn’t release it, redactions be damned? Then you haven’t been paying nearly enough attention to whom you are talking about.

            Liked by 2 people

          3. “Because he would not release the unredacted version he presumably had.”

            Sorry, that will not work. If he had such documents and his scruples kept him from publishing or leaking it (ha!) there would be no foul in revealing its import. We are talking about evidence that would prove one of his bigger lies – the so-called Russia Collusion Hoax – was not a lie at all. No way would he sit silently for 18 months on such evidence and certainly he would shout from the rooftops if such evidence were taken away by the FBI.

            Liked by 2 people

          4. RE: “Once again, nobody in the government – even his closest non-deep-state aides – took his rage tweets to be orders to be obeyed.”

            Your “rage tweets” are a red herring. Trump never used Twitter for executive purposes.

            As stated in his Jan. 19 memo, Trump requested and the FBI performed a declassification review of Crossfire Hurricane documents. As a result, the FBI gave Trump a binder containing redacted documents that presumably could be released to the public.

            The Jan. 19, 2021 memo formally requests another declassification review and release of the materials in the binder the FBI prepared for him.

            Trump followed procedure scrupulously. “Rage tweets” were not involved in any way.

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          5. “Your “rage tweets” are a red herring. Trump never used Twitter for executive purposes.”

            Hardly. You people and Trump keep claiming that Trump declassified this and declassified that months ago when he did not. All he did was tweet. When reporters took him at his word and asked to see the now “unclassified” documents under the FOIA his administration went to court to argue that without the proper official paperwork the tweets did not apply. And no such paperwork had been done.

            His memo of January 19th is an example of what should have be done if he was serious about declassifying materials, however, it was too little, too late. His instructions do not carry forward to the next administration.

            Liked by 1 person

          6. The unclassified and redacted copy of the documents were ordered released, and the order was valid as Trump was still President.

            The order was never carried out and the Biden administration has not enforced it, but none the less it was a valid and binding order when issued.

            It has been almost 2 years and the redacted document is still hidden. The Biden administration is simply ignoring the legal order.

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          7. “It has been almost 2 years and the redacted document is still hidden. The Biden administration is simply ignoring the legal order.”

            It is SOP for a new President to put existing orders on hold until reviewed and released. Trump’s order was ill-advised for obvious reasons – the most basic being it was politically motivated and had nothing to do with national security.

            And what you are leaving out of this story is that the binder of documents which was to be released was prepared and reviewed by the FBI. Based on the slime you have been throwing on them, what reason would there be to believe it contains damning evidence against them? Apply your genius to that question.

            Liked by 1 person

          8. The FBI provided redactions but remained opposed to releasing it at all.

            The order to release the document was immediate, not at some future time.

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          9. “The order to release the document was immediate, not at some future time.”

            If it was a serious order and not just a last minute CYA exercise or political stunt it should not have been issued at nearly the last minute of the Trump term. There is no realistic way for it to have been carried out in the time he allowed.

            You are correct, the FBI did not want it released at all. The new President – who has not made his bones by attacking the security services of this country – honored their preference. End of story.

            Liked by 1 person

          10. Biden CAN, if he chooses to. It is like Executive Privilege, it only applies to the incumbent.

            But you will make some mountain out of that mole hill, as you have been doing this entire thread.

            YAWN!

            Liked by 1 person

          11. RE: “If he had such documents and his scruples kept him from publishing or leaking it (ha!) there would be no foul in revealing its import.”

            Your “scruples” are another red herring.

            Trump could not have legally released the unredacted documents for two reasons. First, none of the affected agencies had approved the release. Second, Trump had already delegated release authority — through his AG — to the special prosecutor, John Durham. Once Trump left office, his only recourse was to keep any unredacted materials in safe storage until he could make them public in an authorized manner (as in a court of law with the assistance of a “special master.”)

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          12. “Once Trump left office, his only recourse was to keep any unredacted materials in safe storage until he could make them public in an authorized manner”

            Uh, doing so – if that is what he did – was a crime. “Safe storage” in your golf club is not a legally approved method of safeguarding of classified materials or other National Defense Information.

            But, as a reminder, the idea that the materials recovered included this particular binder is purely speculation.

            Liked by 1 person

          13. “Trump could not have legally released”…

            You seem to think DJT gives a rat’s ass about the la?> Anyone who says he can shoot someone in broad daylight and not be breaking the law (Yeah, I took license with what he said. SO What?) could care less about what other agencies think.

            You people in your tribe give him way too much credit for obeying the law.

            Liked by 1 person

          14. RE: ” You people and Trump keep claiming that Trump declassified this and declassified that months ago when he did not.”

            Do you deny that the FBI prepared a binder of redacted Crossfire Hurricane material for Trump? Do you have any evidence that Trump used Twitter to request that particular declassification?

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          15. “Do you have any evidence that Trump used Twitter to request that particular declassification?”

            Yes. On October 6th. In this tweet…

            “I have fully authorized the total Declassification of any & all documents pertaining to the single greatest political CRIME in American History, the Russia Hoax. Likewise, the Hillary Clinton Email Scandal. No redactions!”

            This is one of the tweets that his administration went to court to argue was empty talk and not meant to be implemented. They won that argument.

            Liked by 1 person

          16. Yes, he did tweet that but at the some time he was obtaining a redacted version for release. It was not uncommon for Trump’s tweets to be more outrageous than hs actions.

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          17. “Yes, he did tweet that but at the some time he was obtaining a redacted version for release. It was not uncommon for Trump’s tweets to be more outrageous than his actions.”

            Sure, I agree with that. Even in 2020 there were still some people around him who took the law and national security seriously. They went to court to argue what you just said. And they won.

            Liked by 1 person

          18. “And then the FBI under Biden buried the redacted and declassified documents.”

            Yes, Trump asked for their proposed redactions in January 2020. And in his final memo on the 19th of January 2021 he referred to those proposed redactions and accepted them. So, what has the FBI under Biden got to do with burying anything?

            It is very clear given the substance and timing of Trump’s last minute written order that it was not about national security. It was about politics. The next administration rightfully ignored it. Whatever damning materials are in it – if any, has been in the hands of Durham for about three years.

            And, as a reminder, that the unredacted Russia-gate binder being discussed was part of the seized materials is currently nothing but your speculation. But, maybe it was. It would make sense that Trump would not want President Biden to see it if he had left it on the bedside table.

            Liked by 1 person

          1. Bull?

            You asked for evidence that Trump tried to declassify material by tweet. I gave you chapter and verse. His tweet was taken seriously by journalists acting on it through FOIA requests and ended up in court where his administration successfully disavowed the tweet.

            What is “Bull” about my answer to your question? Besides the fact that you are not ready for the truth?

            Liked by 1 person

          2. RE: “What is ‘Bul’ about my answer to your question?”

            Simple, if Trump ordered the classification review by Tweet, and the FBI followed the order — as they clearly did — then the order was validated.

            Put another way, the Tweet you cite only announces the order, an order that must have existed in some other legitimate form, since the FBI honored it.

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          3. “Simple, if Trump ordered the classification review by Tweet, and the FBI followed the order — as they clearly did — then the order was validated.”

            You are clearly a very simple person. Most people your age can read with a little bit of understanding.

            Trump did NOT order the Russia-gate classification review by tweet. In fact he had asked for that FBI review months earlier. He did not even mention the FBI review that he had asked for separately. He declared that he HAD declassified EVERYTHING with no redactions. Here. Try again. And maybe try a little harder?

            “I have fully authorized the total Declassification of any & all documents pertaining to the single greatest political CRIME in American History, the Russia Hoax. Likewise, the Hillary Clinton Email Scandal. No redactions!” – DJT October 6th.

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      1. Your so-called stench is nonsense. The kind of massive conspiracies that you are “speculating” about are virtually impossible given the number of people who would have to be in on them.

        I guess you are not reading the evidence provided. The President’s rage tweets were not taken as enforceable orders by ANYBODY in the administration. There are legal procedures to be followed and to expect the FBI to do anything – or to castigate them for doing nothing – without proper written authorization is not realistic.

        Liked by 1 person

          1. Maybe read again.

            The point is that Trump’s own administration argued successfully in court that his tweets were not official and could not be followed.

            The standard procedures that the President need not follow involve getting the concurrence of affected agencies. That does not mean that he can declassify with a tweet, a comment, or by carrying away a classified document. And that is what HIS administration argued in court. And the courts agreed.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. However, regarding the Russia Hoax papers, he did follow the protocol. and the FBI still buried them.

            It is painfully obvious they are hiding wrongdoing.

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          3. Could be national security. Could be they are lies. Could be they reveal criminal activity which is NOT protected by attorney-client privilege.

            But in your mind it just has to be nefarious.

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          4. “It is painfully obvious they are hiding wrongdoing.”

            It is painfully obvious that they are not.

            I ask again, when is the complete lack of evidence going to affect your thinking?

            How about common sense – how are massive conspiracies requiring unwavering commitment and corruption by hundreds of people even possible?

            Liked by 1 person

          5. RE: “The standard procedures that the President need not follow involve getting the concurrence of affected agencies.”

            Exactly right. This does, in fact, mean that the president can declassify sensitive material “on a whim.” However, Trump never took this course.

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    2. RE: “Any explanation why (a) [Trump] did not make them public immediately, (b) why he did not make them public during the 18 months haggling with NARA, and (c) why he did not make them public immediately when the FBI supposedly seized them?”

      Yes. Because the special prosecutor probe (Durham investigation) was and is ongoing.

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      1. “Yes. Because the special prosecutor probe (Durham investigation) was and is ongoing.”

        Well, theoretically maybe. But if Durham has had such material for at least 18 months why is there no evidence of it in cases brought? Surely something so damning as you people are speculating would leave Durham with more than egg on his face.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. RE: “But if Durham has had such material for at least 18 months why is there no evidence of it in cases brought?”

        The question is irrelevant as long as Durham remains on the job. One could speculate, too, that the corruption Durham is finding is so deep and profound that his job is taking a long time to complete.

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        1. “The question is irrelevant as long as Durham . . .”

          Sure, you could speculate about almost anything.

          Durham has now been at it longer than the investigations he is investigating. About three years. He has come up with virtually nothing. One could speculate that this non-result is because there is virtually nothing to find. Or you could speculate that “the corruption is so deep and profound that his job is taking a long time to complete.” One of those speculations is rational and one smacks of disappointed desperation.

          But, time will tell.

          Liked by 1 person

        2. RE: “Sniff, Sniff! Ya smell that? It is DESPERATION.”

          The fact of the ongoing investigation is what matters to the question of Trump releasing Crossfire Hurricane documents.

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          1. If those documents are under protection, why all the whining and crying and gnashing of teeth about the affidavit for the MAL search warrant?

            You people want things both ways. That isn’t reality. That is the true fantasy that you seen to want to believe.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. I was referring to the allegations concerning the documents held by Durham.

            For all YOU believe, that is the case. But you have only provided speculation and drivel to forward a case of crapola so big it couldn’t stay hidden in the bowels of MAL.

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          3. Trump could care less about any of that. If he has what he claims to have, or had, then why did he not release? Because he all of a sudden had a “come to Jesus” moment about not doing what he thinks is in his own best interests? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

            Liked by 1 person

          4. Ongoing investigation? haven’t heard a word about it being ongoing.

            He found so little and is embarrassed by that fact. Trump duped him into doing something, like the AZ ninja audit, and he hasn’t had anything to share since.

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          5. RE: “Trump could care less about any of that. If he has what he claims to have, or had, then why did he not release?”

            Because Durham has called a grand jury. For Trump to release any documents he may have related to Durham’s investigation might be construed as illegal (grand juries are conducted in secret).

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      1. “It is pursuing its own ends, covering its ass on earlier abuses.”

        If these “earlier abuses” were so massive why did Trump’s appointee, Mr. Wray, not blow the whistle on them? And why did Mr. Durham fail – after years of effort and massive resources – fail to find evidence of them?

        At what point will the complete lack of evidence shut you people up on any of your slanders and conspiracy theories?

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Conspiracies never die. They are the chameleons of human organization.

          Italian satellites morph to Chinese bamboo slivers.

          Durham lost because the trial was in DC.

          Gunboats at Mar a Lago.

          Liked by 2 people

          1. What is both annoying and laughable is that even when one their silly claims is completely debunked there is never a “Whoops.” or “Sorry.” Nope. They just move on to the next nonsense claim without a blink of the eye.

            For example, when this search warrant story first broke we had days of breathless reports repeated on this forum of “gestapo tactics,” machine guns, and gunboats descending on peaceful Mar-a-Lago. When challenged for support, out came a 2021 file photo of the security boat protecting the Trump compound. When it turns out that the “raid” was intentionally low-key, that people around at Mar-a-Lago did not even know that it was going on, and that it was Trump who publicized it – not a word of regret or apology for the wasted effort or for spreading Trump’s lies.

            It is always tough to admit when you have been conned. I suppose that explains such behavior.

            Liked by 2 people

          2. The photos the press used were misleading as to the nature of the search, but that in no way excuses the lack of transparency by the FBI.

            Deflecting much?

            Why does the FBI oppose independent review of the documents to screen privileged information? That cannot compromise anything LEGAL they are doing.

            Why is the Affidavit being concealed? If their stated purpose of recovering documents is the true justification for the search, they have that and there is nothing to compromise there either.

            Did they defraud the court(again) to spy on Trump as a fishing expedition?

            Searching the home of a former President is a big deal, and anything less than full transparency is unacceptable. The only rational option is that they have something to hide so damning that it is worth destroying the institution of the FBI to hide it.

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          3. “The only rational option is that they have something to hide so damning that it is worth destroying the institution of the FBI to hide it.”

            So if they don’t reveal what you want, the FBI will be destroyed. But if they do reveal it, the FBI will be destroyed.

            If the affidavit was false, why did they find what they were looking for?

            Liked by 2 people

          4. It is quite possible the FBI has already destroyed itself. If they have done what it appears they have, the public will have zero trust in them for decades. And rightfully so.

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          5. You never trusted them before, so why bother.

            The Mueller Report was accurate. Durham found nothing. Manafort did supply Russian intelligence with campaign data and strategies for three key states.

            What’s your beef?

            Liked by 2 people

          6. Still fighting the Civil War?

            The FBI did all they could to elect Trump. They hung Hillary out to dry…twice. They kept the Russia investigation quiet until after the election. They told Trump about the dossier in private.

            Wray is a Trump appointee. The Archive waited patiently for almost 2 years.

            Trump has gotten every break in the book while leading the country by its nose.

            Personally, I think the GA investigation is going to take out the king first. The laws on election interference are very clear.

            Liked by 2 people

          7. If Trump doesn’t run for some reason, I will be delighted, but the FBI needs to be held accountable even if Trump is guilty as sin,

            A lawless government is far more dangerous than any criminal.

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          8. “A lawless government is far more dangerous than any criminal.”

            And even more dangerous – and real – are gun-toting pinheads who claim the government is lawless when it isn’t and threaten to use violence to put it right.

            Liked by 2 people

          9. Let’s take a quick look down memory lane about Trump’s orbit (Compiments of Tim Miller @ The Bulwark)

            “Campaign Manager – Prison
            Chairman – Indicted & Pardoned
            Lawyer – Prison
            Deputy Campaign Manager – Prison
            National Security Advisor – Prison
            Fixer – Indicted and Pardoned
            Inaugural Chairman – Indicted
            CFO – Indicted, pleading guilty

            Maybe the FBI is on to something legit. ”

            Yeah. DJT is as clean the driven snow.

            Liked by 2 people

          10. “Lying to a FISA court and then promoting the liar.”

            I believe the record will show that the liar in question was fired, prosecuted, and convicted when his actions became known. So, uh, try again.

            Liked by 1 person

          11. So now it is the media’s fault for you being duped? Pitiful.

            …” anything less than full transparency is unacceptable.”

            Not when an investigation is ongoing and the information needs to be protected, along with the rights of the potential accused and any witnesses.

            Liked by 1 person

          12. Affidavits are always sealed until the investigation is over or adjudicated.

            Protection of witnesses and whistleblowers is important considering the threats of violence.

            Just like a Mafia trial.

            Liked by 2 people

          13. His “people” do. “Hang Mike Pence” seems pretty violent during an all out battle to breach Congress putting 125 police in the hospital.

            Trump, as we now know, even approved of that sentiment while he watch the attack on TV and did nothing.

            Just because Hillary Clinton was involved tangentially with the killing of bin Laden does not make her a murderer. You must know that.

            Liked by 2 people

          14. “An awful lot of Hilary associates have died in questionable circumstances”

            Oh, she is a sly one! Murdering people right and left over decades and never getting caught.

            What I find odd is that somehow you manage to think of yourself as a serious-minded thinking adult. You do, right? I don’t know how you do it.

            Liked by 1 person

          15. “But I do have a sense of humor”

            Oh, that was a joke? Who knew? And how were we supposed to tell?

            Let me add that I was not entirely joking about Epstein. Somebody had him killed. Somebody with mob and Russian gangster connections.

            Liked by 1 person

          16. Am I detecting a bit of frivolity and perhaps some resignation as this Trump melodrama plays out.

            I picture some future velvet paintings of Trump hung between a crucifix and the Stars and Bars over a bar.

            Liked by 2 people

          17. The suggestion that people identified if the affidavit were released had to be in fear of their lives was invitation enough to remind people of the dangers to those who stray too close to Ft Marcy Park.

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          18. Two women, mother and daughter, worked as poll workers in GA. Been doing it for years. Low pay, but they felt they were doing a duty to help in elections.

            Then one day a high government employee decided to lie about them being scam artists regarding ballot processing. He used their names. They had to move to new places to live. And it turns out they were perfectly innocent, but the government employee who vicariously set up a threat movement against them never corrected himself. Why? Because he is a crook who also tried to extort election officials in many states.

            This is the kind of pond scum we are dealing with. Meaning, of course, the high level government employee.

            I wouldn’t trust him with my dog’s pooper scooper never mind national secrets.

            There, I think I made my point.

            Liked by 2 people

          19. “ The suggestion that people identified if the affidavit were released had to be in fear of their lives…”

            The answer is obviously yes. I thought I would bring it home to the dangers for even ordinary folks who do not have money or connections for round the clock security like all the others under threat.

            The ex-president is an amoral SOB. And when he exposes average citizens to his mob’s wrath just because he can, and will, it is a problem. A travesty, really.

            So anyone who crosses him, knowingly or not, is always in danger. Politicians, judges, etc. can deal with it. They have access to security.

            You have already gotten excited when some lone looney was supposed to threaten Kavanaugh. Average working class citizens falsely exposed on a national level by a sitting president is pure evil.

            Is that a bit clearer now?

            Liked by 2 people

          20. You are correct. Alex Jones would be proud of your obsession with Clinton conspiracies you keep spreading.

            As far as not hanging the VP for doing his Constitutional duty legally and ethically, attempted murder is a crime.

            Liked by 2 people

          21. “It’s not Hillary they are investigating. Trump doesn’t murder people.”

            First, you have jumped the shark with that silly remark.

            And, second, I have two words for you : Jeffrey Epstein.

            Liked by 1 person

          22. If that was supposed to be sarcasm, it failed.

            And do you know for sure he doesn’t? Or is it more SPECULAITON. Something you seem to do a lot of without any real evidence.

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          23. Just speculating, but any explanations would never be believed by the supporters and amplified falsely by the spineless Republicans.

            What is lost here is that regardless of classification, the documents were not Trump’s to take home. And his refusal to return them is illegal.

            NARA (the Archive) has storage facilities that are secure and allow access by the ex-president as warranted. Just like Obama did with his documents.

            With the likelihood of highly secret papers, the issue blooms into a national security issue. And we know from multiple witnesses that his regard for secrecy was very sloppy. He liked to impress folks with our national secrets and capabilities.

            I am sure our international adversaries were impressed while he was in office. They may have been even more grateful after he left with highly classified information. I hope not for our sake.

            Liked by 2 people

          24. I am not deflecting in the least. I am expressing my take on people who repeat Trump’s claims as holy writ and when they turn out to be bullshit just move on as if they have done nothing out of place. Your recent nonsense about “gestapo tactics” and the gunboat is only the most recent example of how that plays out. All the time with you people.

            As for the question about the affidavit not being made public the answer has been given. It is the same answer that explains the urgency of recovering these documents – significant harm to our security interests if the information is made public. An honest observer would not have trouble understanding this reason given the extremely high classification levels on the documents recovered.

            Liked by 1 person

          25. RE: “Affidavits are always sealed until the investigation is over or adjudicated.”

            False. I just saw Johnathan Turley on TV stating that such affidavits can and not uncommonly are released in full or in part (with redactions) during investigation and adjudication.

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          26. So, they are redacting the lies they told to get the warrant?

            That will be the public perception until proven otherwise as they have done it to spy on Trump before.

            When the DOJ does something this presumptively political, it has to go the extra mile in transparency to show they are not.

            That they are circling the wagons is going to be interpreted as hiding wrongdoing by everyone outside the TFS bubble.

            Even our own Sen Warner is demanding transparency

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          27. Threats by Trump, via his followers and gangs he told to standby are very willing and able to strike violently whenever the boss tells them to.

            Yes, this has been called a no win situation for the DOJ. According to WSJ Garland waited weeks to decide on the warrant. He was in meetings daily discussing all the ramifications.

            Trump gave him no choice.

            The Archive turned over to the DOJ the issue of Trump’s stonewalling and lying about classified documents it knew were missing.

            So he was damned either way.

            Trump knows this. He wants to enrage his followers to intimidate us. He went so far as “offering” to turn down the heat. Which is an admission that he controls a dangerous mob.

            There was an audio of the gangs in the Capitol that was revealed during the 1/6 hearings. After rampaging for over 3 hours, Trump thanked them and told them to gone home. When the text arrived, the gangs said Trump told them to leave and they did.

            The “stand by” boys obeyed the Master.

            No doubt they will gladly do it again.

            PS: Public perception? Heck, Don, most Republicans still believe in Italian satellites or variations thereof. The fraud issue has been debunked so many times, yet those same folks will never believe anything their leader doesn’t approve of. So public perception concerns mean little.

            Liked by 2 people

          28. “That will be the public perception until proven otherwise as they have done it to spy on Trump before.”

            Roger Stone was the target; Trump loved him some Roger, with his Nixon tattoo.

            Redaction to protect the integrity of the investigation, the witnesses involved and the subject of the investigation. Trump is entitled to that protection as a potential indictee.

            But let’s just throw it ALL out there for the world to see and for some rabid Trump loving, violent doofus to start targeting all involved, To protect Trump. If all the investigators and witnesses are dead, there is no case. Is that what YOU are hoping for?

            Like

          29. “I just saw Johnathan Turley …”

            What can be done legally is not the same as what is normally be done. Or should be done.

            In this case the affidavit is full of accusations of serious crimes with supporting evidence. Leaving aside the national security dimension, if the affidavit had been publicized you people would be screaming that it was a violation of innocent until proven guilty and an attempt to politically damage Trump. We know it is some bad stuff or none of this would have happened.

            I think it is fair to say that whatever action DOJ takes or doesn’t take you people will be playing your victim cards. It is what you do.

            Liked by 2 people

          30. I may have been too broad in “always sealed” as there are exceptions. The demand to reveal whistleblowers or other witnesses and information is political to be sure.

            Yet the investigation is ongoing and such premature revelation would hinder that. The search did turn up the documents they were looking for, so the affidavit was correct. Exposing the how could, or would really, endanger individuals.

            Like I said, we are dealing with a kind of political Mafia.

            Liked by 2 people

          31. RE: “An honest observer would not have trouble understanding this reason given the extremely high classification levels on the documents recovered.”

            An honest observer would note that no explanation has been given for the classification levels. That is, what type of government secrets do the assigned classifications protect?

            Like

          32. “…what type of government secrets do the assigned classifications protect?”

            Gee, why don’t we ask the folks Trump as shown the secrets to?😇

            Liked by 2 people

          33. “An honest observer would note that no explanation has been given for the classification levels.”

            Well, there is a Catch-22 in this line of thought. The purpose of a high level of classification is to keep dangerous secrets safe. The only way to justify the decision is to reveal the secrets. So, there is no easy answer to this demand for more information on what it is that made this so serious.

            And, again, the question of classification is not actually relevant to the crimes alleged. The crimes cited have nothing to do with the mishandling of classified materials.

            Liked by 1 person

          34. RE: “If the affidavit was false, why did they find what they were looking for?”

            What makes you think they found what they were looking for? In fact, what were they looking for and what — exactly — did they find?

            Like

          35. “What makes you think they found what they were looking for? In fact, what were they looking for and what — exactly — did they find?”

            What they were looking for : Government materials illegally in the possession of Donald Trump.
            What did they find : Government materials illegally in the possession of Donald Trump.

            Liked by 1 person

          36. And privileged communications between Trump and his attorneys, on all matters, with no connection to the warrant.

            Probably also campaign strategy documents on their way to the DNC, and all sorts of private communications that are none of their business but of possible political use.

            Like

          37. “And privileged communications between Trump and his attorneys”…

            A CLAIM, but no proof. Just more speculation. It was a Trump lawyer who signed an affidavit that ALL CLASSIFIED material had been returned, when in fact, it had not. SO now we are supposed to believe a Trump attorney is telling the truth about “privileged communications”.? Laughable nonsense.

            And it is YOUR post that Alex Jones would be truly proud of. And if he saw it, you might hear it the next day on his airwaves.

            Liked by 1 person

          38. The search warrant described what they were looking for. 12 boxes with material indicated on the warrant were discovered. The details of that are pending and should remain protected, as deemed necessary by a judge, to protect the investigation’s integrity, the rights and safety of any and all witnesses, and the rights of the potentially accused.

            Liked by 1 person

          39. Attorney client privilege would be gone for those papers related to it, but not other topics.

            In any case, that determination would be for the Special Master to decide, not the FBI or DOJ.

            Once the FBI has read it, privilege is violated.

            Like

          40. RE: “What is lost here is that regardless of classification, the documents were not Trump’s to take home. And his refusal to return them is illegal.”

            That remains to be established. All Americans are entitled to defend themselves in a court of law, even if their defense must rely on national security secrets.

            Like

          41. RE: “Yet the investigation is ongoing and such premature revelation would hinder that.”

            Since the affidavit has not been released, or even discussed in a substantive way, you can’t possibly know that.

            Like

          42. RE: “Gee, why don’t we ask the folks Trump as shown the secrets to?😇”

            I’d be happy to. Of course, his lawyers aren’t free to discuss the matter. Do you have the names of anyone else Trump has shown the secrets to?

            Like

          43. Putin?😇

            I was making light of a political conundrum. Yet, why did Trump refuse to return our documents and then lie about doing so in June?

            And what makes you think his lawyers were cleared to read top secret/restricted access documents.

            That should come out as the investigation proceeds.

            Liked by 2 people

          44. RE: “What they were looking for : Government materials illegally in the possession of Donald Trump…What did they find : Government materials illegally in the possession of Donald Trump.”

            Tell us — EXACTLY — what materials you are referring to. At this point it isn’t even established that the materials that were subject to the search warrant were illegally in Trump’s possession. Some even say the search warrant itself was unconstitutional because it lacked specificity.

            Like

          45. “Some say”…right out of Trump’s playbook.

            “EXACTLY”? Sure, I’ll send you a list and a copy of the affidavit if you want.

            I suggest you find that info and tell me I’m wrong. Or right.

            Deal?

            Liked by 2 people

          46. “The question of whether the courts have been defrauded yet again is a security issue too.”

            There is no such question. Except in the minds of Trump-defending hyper-partisan ideologues desperate to find a reason to believe that they have not been had by a con man.

            Liked by 1 person

          47. “The FBI defrauded the FISA court to spy on Trump before.”

            Is it hard to get your facts right?

            The finding related to a FISA filing to surveil Carter Page. Not to spy on Trump.

            To the best of my knowledge the criticism of those sloppy mistakes lead to the prosecution of a single FBI agent who was convicted of falsifying a claim. The FBI is a huge organization. It is not immune to mistakes and misconduct by individuals. You people have milked that one incident well past its sell-by date.

            Liked by 1 person

          48. RE: “And what makes you think his lawyers were cleared to read top secret/restricted access documents.”

            Because it is not uncommon and not unreasonable and I don’t know that they weren’t. Besides, they would have to be cleared to advise Trump in legal matters related to the documents, and Trump — like you and me — is entitled to legal representation.

            Like

          49. Well Trump is fund raising again based on the search. Legal fees, don’t you know.

            Yes, I imagine some security clearances are operative for attorneys. 20 months out of office though?

            Would they have restricted access clearances, however?

            The bottom line that started this mess is that the documents are not his to keep, classified or not.

            Liked by 2 people

          50. Do the attorneys have to have clearance to read their own privileged communications with their client?

            So far, about a dozen documents claimed to be classified out of forty boxes taken. What is the rest of what was taken?

            Like

          51. I don’t know. Perhaps recipes. Maybe plans to blow up Washington Monument?

            No one needed clearance to read whatever they wanted in Trump’s closet, top secret or not. I think that is the issue.

            Liked by 2 people

          52. Why do you assume casual access to those records?

            Why do you not?

            You have already tried to make something of the fact that government agents warned of the inadequate security of that storage room where boxes moved in and out. Hundreds of visitors who do not have security clearances flow through Mar-A-Lago. One Chinese spy has already been caught there.

            https://www.reuters.com/legal/trumps-mar-a-lago-security-nightmare-that-housed-classified-documents-2022-08-13/

            Liked by 1 person

          53. The door was locked, The lock was not broken.

            NARA requested a stronger lock and got one, but that does not mean the previous lock was breached. It wasn’t

            I was unaware Swalwell’s girlfriend was at Mar-a-Lago.

            Like

          54. “The door was locked . . . NARA requested a stronger lock and got one, but that does not mean the previous lock was breached.”

            You are very quick to state “facts” that you have no way of knowing anything about. Too quick in my opinion.

            You do no know that the storage room was kept locked at all times.
            You do not know how many keys there were.
            You do not know which people had keys to that room.
            You do not know anything about the security clearances of those people who had keys.
            You do not know what kind of lock or how pickable it was.

            Some of the materials (Top Secret / SCI) require a level of security that no closet can come close to.

            Liked by 1 person

          55. A stronger lock was requested, but the previous lock was not broken. The storage locker is in the part of the building the Secret Service secures and had constant video surveillance, which was provided to the FBI.

            So, on what basis do you assert there was a problem?

            The whole “Nuclear Docs, urgent need” narrative is falling apart anyway.

            Like

          56. “The storage locker is in the part of the building the Secret Service secures and had constant video surveillance, which was provided to the FBI.”

            Laughable arguments. You must be worn out with the constant spinning!

            So somebody with a key goes up to a closet and opens the door, goes in and comes out later. Does somebody monitor that particular camera 24/7. If they do, how do they know that – say – Trump’s pool man has no business in there? Was the Secret Service informed that they were guarding Top Secret / SCI documents in that room? If they were, why did they not report the egregious breach of security? And, of course, the footage delivered to the FBI does show people going in and out with boxes. And that was just in the 60 days before the warrant was served.

            You seem to think national security is some sort of joke. It isn’t.

            Liked by 1 person

          57. “Do you have a cite for unauthorized access, or are you just making that up? ”

            If you are going to play(?) dumb what is the point of talking to you? I pointed out several obvious flaws in your claim that the closet has been perfectly secure. Address those if you can.

            I am not you. I do not bolster my opinions with made-up facts. Cite ONE FACT that I have offered today (or ever) that I pulled out of my ass as you do all the time. I could cite several such “facts” that you have offered just on this topic.

            Liked by 1 person

          58. If the top secret/special access documents are meant to not just stored but viewed in a secure room then in a closet under his golf clothes is not qualifying.

            Just keep it simple. The documents the Archive were missing are not his. They are ours. We wanted them back. And as a civilian he refused to return them.

            So after 20 months, and with the lack of even a modicum of security, we took them back legally and by following procedures.

            Not hard to grasp. Just hard to accept.

            Liked by 2 people

          59. Only a small portion of what the FBI took were records NARA could reasonably lay claim to.

            More attorney/client privileged documents were seized than previously classified documents.

            It is doubtful that more than half the document NARA claimed were legitimately covered. Remember that there is nothing that prohibits Trump from having COPIES of documents NARA already has unless they remain classified.

            Like

          60. “Only a small portion of what the FBI took were records NARA could reasonably lay claim to.”

            You have absolutely no way of knowing that. Does not stop you. It never does.

            “Remember that there is nothing that prohibits Trump from having COPIES of documents NARA already has unless they remain classified.”

            That is categorically, laughably FALSE. Any document containing NDI is subject to strict controls whether classified or not. In fact, the Espionage Act does not even mention classification markings.

            Liked by 1 person

          61. There were less than a dozen previously classified documents. There were six boxes claimed to be covered by attorney/client privilege. Over 40 boxes in all.

            NARA never claimed more than a fraction of that.

            Like

          62. “There were less than a dozen previously classified documents.”

            The inventory referred to collections of “miscellaneous Top Secret documents” etc. not just documents. You do not know how many such documents were in each such grouping.

            As to what NARA claimed, they did their best to figure out which documents and objects Trump had stolen but they could never be sure short of this search warrant. For example, had they known he had taken “various classified TS/SCI documents,” the shit would have hit the fan much sooner.

            Liked by 1 person

          63. Not so. NARA had full access to those documents for over a year,

            They knew exactly what was there, The negotiations were not about what was there, but about what Trump could keep, what he had to return and what he could copy.

            Like

          64. You have a house guest for a few days. After he leaves, you discover a lot of missing valuables.

            You contact him and he wants to negotiate about what he can keep.

            Does that sit right with you?

            Liked by 2 people

          65. More like you have a business associate who leaves your firm. What of his contacts and records belongs to the firm and which to the former employee.

            Like

          66. Well that would be hashed out before he leaves if he were honest and ethical.

            He can’t just empty my files and sit on them while I try to figure out what is missing and then negotiate from 1000 miles away.

            Negotiating with a thief to return your items may be Trump world and fine with you. But I find that to be a bit distasteful.

            Liked by 2 people

          67. “v”

            You know this how? Are you party to the Archives? The FBI? Trump’s lawyers?

            Your bull is getting deeper and deeper. Good thing, you own waders as any good fisherman would.

            Liked by 1 person

      2. Speculation has just turned into accusation.

        Why is the FBI a rogue organization now,, but under TFG and HIS appointee, who is still there, by the way, it was a paragon of law enforcement.

        You are so desperate for TFG to be found innocent, you will compromise your own principles to do so. McCarthy would LOVE to have you in his caucus. That way he would not be so alone in his spinelessness.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. When did I say the FBI was a paragon of law enforcement?

          I said it enjoyed such a reputation, not that it was deserved.

          When I practiced in Norfolk, I had 2 FBI agents and a Federal Asst Prosecutor as patients, and to the best of my knowledge, they were straight up professionals. But the top of the organization has been corrupt and political since Hoover.

          It is terrible that the rank and file agents are being disgraced by their leadership.

          Like

          1. Your corruption charges are without merit or proof. They are mere speculation spit out by a drooling Trump defender with very little common sense left. Or so it seems.

            Like

  3. I will give you credit for labeling your post SPECULATION. After that the, drivel flows like so much vinegar.

    The DOJ is supposed to be an independent organization under the auspices of the Executive Branch. POTUS nominates and the Senate confirms the AG, and he or she goes about the business of being the PEOPLE’S attorney.

    It was first truly weaponized, or attempted to be weaponized, by Nixon. Trump took it further to the point he fired an AG because he refused to operate as a personal attorney/attack dog for Trump. Merrick Garland has RESTORED the independence of DOJ, but Trumpists think, because of how TFG wanted it run, that it was RIGHT. It was WRONG and remains wrong to think or believe otherwise.

    Your Speculation is a deflection, or attempted deflection, from FACTS in evidence, some released, others still under seal to protect the integrity of an investigation, witnesses, and even the potentially charged.

    You can take your speculation, spread it over your grass and have to mow it every other day. Because fertilizer that good would make your grass grow very, very fast.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Yes, this scenario crossed my mind too. After the phony Russiagate perpetrated by Clinton and the DNC which led to the Obama led DOJ/FBI using fake dossiers to raid citizens homes, I have a hard time not believing a partisan hack, Garland, leading the DOJ under a Democrat POTUS hell bent on covering for his Democrat phonies isnt pulling another political stunt with the FBI again.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/what-did-the-steele-hoax-cost-america-russia-clinton-trump-lies-intelligence-court-trial-dossier-politics-11652470728
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/11/04/arrest-illustrates-how-steele-dossier-was-political-dirty-trick-by-hillary-clinton/amp/

    Like

        1. Your “facts” from te eNYPost are not worth the fishwrapping that the tabloid is to New Yorkers.

          And you really should not post while looking in a mirror.

          For you to quetion Garaland’s intergrity is just further proof that you can’t see outside of your bubble.

          But rant away. It is entertaining.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Yeah, the Post was also first with the Laptop, which the “reputable” newspapers called disinformation for 18 months before admitting it is accurate.

            Any claim Garland had to integrity has evaporated since he became AG.

            Like

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