Overcaution kills, Pt 2

The use of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine has been paused because 6 women had blood clotting problems, one of them fatal. This was out of 7 million doses given so far.

The pause will result in avoidable deaths due to the delay in getting the population vaccinated.

An evidence based approach would take into account that women are well known to have more clotting problems than men and that the combination of smoking and oral contraceptives results in a much higher incidence of clotting problems.

There is no reason at all to pause the use of the J&J vaccine in men, as there have been no cases involving men.

There is very little justification for the pause in women, but if the very rare events are a concern, then continue the use of the J&J vaccine for men and give women Moderna or Pfizer while the issue is studied, especially if they have other risk factors like past clotting problems or they smoke or take hormones.

But it is idiocy to leave J&J vaccine on the shelf while people are still dying.

12 thoughts on “Overcaution kills, Pt 2

    1. When the “pause” ends, who is going to stand in lune for the first post pause J&J vaccination?

      Faith in the vaccine has been permanently compromised, even though half the population faces no increased risk at all, and there may be no real connection at all. Note the ‘background’ risk for women is almost the same as the vaccinated women. We don’t as yet know if the women affected were smokers or used hormones, either of which would raise their risk above the incidence for vaccinated women.

      Such rare episodes do not justify destroying the confidence in the vaccine. Vaccine reluctance kills more than CVST.

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      1. “When the “pause” ends, who is going to stand in lune for the first post pause J&J vaccination?”

        Note I was NOT defending the government action on suspending use of the J&J vaccine.

        And while it will be a challenge, getting the right people in involved in the messaging, which is necessary to overcome ALL vaccine hesitancy, will be the key to get someone to take that first dose. Similar hesitancy existed with the AZ vaccine for similar reasons, but that has been overcome in the EU.

        On a side not, you seem overly negative today. Are you feeling OK or is it just side effects from being on the NW River too long in the sun and wind? 😉😇

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  1. RE: “But it is idiocy to leave J&J vaccine on the shelf while people are still dying.”

    I see the pause as political theater. Covid-19 is the first disease for which a genetically engineered vaccine has ever been approved, and the long-term consequences are not known. The pretense of caution becomes politically valuable under these circumstances, whether it is justified or not.

    I agree that the pause is not justified for the reasons you give. It is, however, consistent with Stumble Joe’s ideological posturing.

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    1. “Stumble Joe’s ideological posturing.”

      Idiotic name-calling aside, 46 is following the advice of his CDC and FDA. Unlike 45, who flew by the seat of his pants. And also for ideological posturing, 45 did the same thing in downplaying the seriousness of the pandemic, among other things.

      The hypocrisy displayed by those who attack Biden for every little breath he takes is not surprising. It IS disgusting.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. RE: “46 is following the advice of his CDC and FDA.”

        If all your friends tell you to jump off a bridge, do you do it?

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        1. Childishness seems to be your new “go-to” move.

          If my friends are qualified base jumpers and provide me with the proper equipment and training, then there is a possibility I will.

          And unlike 45, 46 did not surround himself with yes men and sycophants. And also unlike 45, 46 pays attention and doesn’t pretend to know more than those with the proper training and expertise. Remember “political theater”? Your hero was the king of it….along with other things.

          When the scientists say hold on a sec and let’s verify that the risk outweighs the threat, I find it helpful to do so. It worked in the EU with the AZ vaccine. Oh, wait! They are all SOCIALISTS.

          Liked by 1 person

        2. “ If all your friends tell you to jump off a bridge, do you do it?”

          Depends.

          How high is the bridge, how deep is the water, how old am I, will my bathing suit rip off, is there a bet…the list goes on.

          Or as we say in golf, is the “risk-reward” shot worth the risk and/ or the reward.

          Is wearing a mask for 30 minutes of shopping a matter of freedom at all costs or just being prudent and respectful of others?

          (I wonder if some of the insurrectionists will question their “reward” while learning to cope in prison for a decade or so.)

          Liked by 2 people

    2. Let me see if I have this right. The pause – this “pretense of caution” – in the use of the J&J vaccine – a serious blow to President Biden’s program to end the pandemic – is a bit of “political theater” organized by President Biden to do what? Cover his ass should your irrational and unscientific fears about the vaccine prove to have been right all along? This vaccine involves genetic engineering which means taking it will turn you into a mutant? Or something? Is that your theory?

      I see now why you have never answered the question about getting vaccinated yourself and why you are so vociferously opposed to businesses being allowed to require proof of vaccination along with shirts and shoes. My suggestion is that you overcome such fears, man up and join with the rest of us to do the right thing – get vaccinated and help end this scourge.

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      1. Actually, I don’t fault Biden on this.

        The FDA’s overcaution and independence are going to be a problem for him just as it was for Trump.

        Were it not for the FDA’s risk adverse stubbornness, we could have started vaccinating last September and the Winter surge that killed hundreds of thousands would have never happened.

        If Biden is listening, it’s still not too late for that drone strike on FDA headquarters.

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        1. Well, I think your generosity towards President Biden is probably misplaced. I would bet a dollar against a donut that he was briefed on the problem and endorsed the cautious approach based on what the scientists recommended. It is easy as a layman without access to all the information that needs to be considered to throw brickbats, but go ahead – throw them at President Biden – whatever the role of anybody else, the buck stops with him.

          And, as you might suspect, I do not endorse your shifting the blame for excessive Covid deaths away from where it belongs – former President, Covid-minimizer and science-denier, Donald Trump. In spite of the FDA’s careful approach, I do not believe there was ANY time when masses of vaccines were sitting idle waiting for the FDA to approve the EUA.

          But here is something we should agree on – the idea that this unfortunate pause is “political theater” staged by the President as a PR screen for some future genetic disaster is palpable nonsense.

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  2. Yes, it is. Especially since 6 of the 7 are still alive and that all 7 are repotedly women. It is far more likely that this is the result of something common to women and common to the women specifically.

    Opening myself up to angry women, but how about something like Botox or other approved injectible for beauty’s sake combined with a uniquely female physiological condition? While men, like women, are born to vanity, women are victimized by high pressure tactics.

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