The Capitol Incursion

What are the people in a democracy supposed to do when they feel their interests and concerns are not being represented?

It is all very well to say they shouldn’t break the law, but the sentiment is impractical. A representative government “breaks the law” when it fails to represent the people. From that point forward the niceties of public behavior no longer apply.

Nor does it matter whether the opinions of the people are wise or foolish. Those opinions are what they are and the whole point of representative government is to take them into account.

I believe the media, the courts and now Congress failed in their basic representational duty, making something like the Capitol incursion inevitable.

I don’t wish it hadn’t happened. Ugly as it was, the incursion didn’t look particularly violent to me. It looked more like a big bungle.

It is hard to guess what the long-term consequences will be. That will depend to a large extent on details of the event we haven’t yet learned and won’t, probably, for months. I take it that the incursion scared the lawmakers at the Capitol. That strikes me as potentially positive, but not certainly so.

32 thoughts on “The Capitol Incursion

  1. “What are the people in a democracy supposed to do when they feel their interests and concerns are not being represented?”

    In the democratic republic that we live in, you “vote the bums out”. That is how it supposed to work. It worked quite well in November when the majority of voters in this country elected Joseph R. Biden of Delaware President and Kamal Harris of California as Vice President. The Electoral College was also won by the same “landslide” that T**** won in 2016.

    You have just condoned the criminal incursion yesterday. IMO, that makes you an accomplice to the crime.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. RE: “In the democratic republic that we live in, you ‘vote the bums out’. That is how it supposed to work.”

      Agreed, but the “Stop the Steal” people clearly don’t believe that the democratic process worked in 2020. And it doesn’t really matter if they are right or wrong in their belief. They believe it.

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      1. More nonsense. Their false beliefs – created and stoked by a con man – do NOT justify the violence and desecration on display in the Capitol yesterday. These rioters are individually culpable for their crimes and should be punished to the full extent of the law for criminal trespass, vandalism, assault of law enforcement officers, breaking and entering, theft of public and private property. No matter what they believed.

        And, we need to make an example out of Donald Trump. He incited this riot. He directly caused a death. He should be prosecuted. Let’s test in court whether the President is above the law – a monarchial concept that was anathema to the people who created the Constitution. He is certain to issue some sort of self-pardon. That should be taken to SCOTUS for rebuttal and then he should go to jail.

        Liked by 3 people

        1. What falsehood have I fomented? Is it not true that the “Stop the Steal” people believe the election was stolen?

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          1. Dear Dr. Semantics.

            There was no “steal”. T***** said there was. He actually said there was before the first vote was even cast. You have supported, with full throat, T****’s claims that have been debunked, tossed out of court, and rendered completely false by the MAJORITY of people in this country. Your little, very loud MINORITY of people have ate it up to do things like “own the libs”.

            You keep spreading fertilizer, your going to kill your crops. T**** and his supporters, including you, my “good” doctor, are trying to kill this country. -IMO

            Liked by 1 person

          2. RE: “There was no ‘steal’. T***** said there was.”

            In that case your argument is with T***** and not with me. My post doesn’t even address that as an issue.

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          3. What falsehood have I fomented?

            Wow! You do not seem to understand what you write. Here, let me help.

            1. There ARE alternatives besides violence for people who feel aggrieved.
            2. Congress did NOT fail in its duty and cause this rampage.
            3. The media did NOT fail in its duty and cause this rampage.
            4. The courts did not fail in its duty and cause this rampage.
            5. Neither the media nor the courts has ANY “representational duty.”
            6. The Congress did NOT fail to represent the people by following the law.
            7. Failing to do what YOU want is not breaking the law.
            8. Government has no obligation to accommodate lies and foolishness.
            9. Not particularly violent? Tell that to the family of the woman who is now dead. And you are the fellow whose panties were in a twist when some fools set a dumpster fire, but the trashing the Capitol by hundreds of rioters pushing past police is “not particularly violent.”

            Further, you deny condoning violence and then offer this sentence . . . “I don’t wish it hadn’t happened.”
            Let me translate – that means you are glad that it did. You condone it.

            Liked by 2 people

      2. “ “Stop the Steal” people clearly don’t believe that the democratic process worked in 2020. And it doesn’t really matter if they are right or wrong in their belief. They believe it.”

        OK, so that makes the violence fine.

        The man who shot up a pizza restaurant believed he was saving children. Islamic extremists believe they are on the right side of God. Those thugs who stormed the Capitol believed Trump’s lies about the election.

        The only reason so many Trump fans believe the election was stolen is because Trump said so. Do you have any direct evidence? No. Just what you read and heard on your media sites and they are just parroting Trump and his surrogates.

        We did stop the steal, and Trump is out and the Senate is Democratic. A woman died and dozens hospitalized. Thank you.

        Trump was the wrong man for the job. He failed under pressure from a major crisis. And he pitched a tantrum that we are paying dearly for and will probably damage the GOP, a good thing, and the faith in our governance and Constitution, a bad thing.

        And please spare the self righteousness indignation. The brutality of crackdowns on BLM protests compared to the opening of gates and kid glove treatments given to the Proud Boys gangs is just abominable. Trump people have no grievances in comparison. Except that they fear that our country is less white and more cafe au lait than they prefer. And this hurts them how?

        This has been planned for weeks, if not longer. I guess Trump figured the Capitol would be taken over for a few hours or days. “God, those people do love me”. But what was the end game? Like a dog chasing cars, what does he do when he catches it.

        Your rationalizing is so Trumpian and so pathetic, yet totally expected.

        IMHO

        Liked by 2 people

      3. ” . . .the ‘Stop the Steal’ people clearly don’t believe that the democratic process worked in 2020.”

        So blinking what?! Please, pardon me for not caring what a bunch of vandals believe or don’t.

        There were and remain millions of Americans (my hand is raised) that DO NOT believe Trump is a legitimately elected president. I saw him on at least 2 different occasions publicly ask Russia for help in getting him elected. His team of bandits assisted, behind the scenes, to dump personal e-mails of Trump’s opponant online. And, yes, add to that the Comey announcements just days before the election.

        B.U.T., Democrats and others who saw Trump for the shit-for-brains that he is DID NOT go crazy as loons and break into Government buildings.

        There was civil protest. Yes. But, no; we didn’t storm the work places of the Trump’s.
        We put up with all the ‘soulless cadav
        or’ crap and other stupid comments regarding HRC from members now on THIS site.

        BOTTOM LINE, again – we sucked it up, wrote our opinions and refrained from going bat-crap-crazy as what you are condoning and pushing for more of.

        You say – “I don’t wish it [yesterday’s horror] hadn’t happened.”

        Personally, I can’t think of any more of an Un-American statement an American could make today, regarding the assault we watched, live in living color, yesterday.

        Liked by 3 people

      4. “It doesn’t really matter if they are right or wrong in their belief.”

        I does matter. That is the problem with conspiracies.

        If I put a bullet in your head and then said I believed you were possessed, is that ok? Do I have a legitimate complaint? My cult leader told me to shoot you because of that belief.

        You can’t justify lies by saying people believe them, so we will act as if they were true.

        That is the road to anarchy. A road we were introduced to yesterday.

        Liked by 2 people

  2. “What are the people in a democracy supposed to do when they feel their interests and concerns are not being represented?”

    That is one of your most revealing comments ever. To any one who loves this country and the rule of law the answer is obvious. You roll up your sleeves and work for change by political means. But, for some reason, that answer seems to not enter your mind. Revealing.

    A recent glowing example is how Stacey Abrams responded when she was denied the governorship of Georgia by the voter suppression tactics of the then Secretary of State and now governor. She did not storm the State House or call on her supporters to revolt or brandish their guns. She got to work and inspired countless people to help her fix the state. And, as it turns out, the country.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. RE: “But, for some reason, that answer seems to not enter your mind. Revealing.”

      Is ad hominem all you have?.

      I have long advocated election process reforms that would have prevented the ambiguities we see in the 2020 election. I’m not a very important person, but I have certainly used my voice for “change by political means.”

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        1. So what? The point is that Mr. Murphy falsely accuses me of abandoning “political means” for bringing about change.

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          1. You are full of shit. I did not falsely accuse you of anything.
            I responded to this rhetorical question . . .

            “What are the people in a democracy supposed to do when they feel their interests and concerns are not being represented?”

            which says that violence was the ONLY means for them to respond. And just in case we missed the import of what you were trying to say you went on to . . .

            1. Accusing the government of breaking the law. A total LIE
            2. Condoning violence . . .”the niceties of public behavior no longer apply.”
            3. FALSELY accusing the Congress and the media for causing this rampage.

            And, it is NOT failing to “represent” when Congress does not do what YOU want and most especially when what you want is bull shit based on lies.

            Now having re-read your post, I can now say that my first sentence above was very, very generous. You really are full of shit. And that is not “ad hominem.” It is the truth about what you write.

            Liked by 2 people

      1. Is it actually “ad hominem” to point out the utter nonsense that you people revel in?

        You asked a question that implied there was no reasonable alternative to rampaging through the capital. That was STUPID because there obviously are alternatives.

        You went on to try to justify this criminal behavior by pointing out that these fools actually believe the lies of the con man. That too was STUPID. A sincere criminal is still a criminal.

        There were no significant ambiguities in the 2020 election. That too is STUPID.

        You have used your voice to condone violence. That is worse that STUPID.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. RE: “You asked a question that implied there was no reasonable alternative to rampaging through the capital.”

          The implication exists entirely in your imagination.

          You should try harder to see what is written instead of what you imagine. I did not, for example, condone the Capitol incursion.

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          1. ” A representative government “breaks the law” when it fails to represent the people. From that point forward the niceties of public behavior no longer apply.”

            What does that mean if not condoning violence when the “niceties” of public behavior no longer apply.

            You are condoning the insurrection to overthrow the legally elected government, Biden’s, and keep Trump in power.

            That is insurrection, treason and illegal.

            I think Paul read your post exactly as written. A textualist at heart, I am sure.

            Liked by 2 people

          2. To be generous, I believe that Mr. Roberts does not fully understand the import of what he writes. In this case, he did not write “I condone violence” and seems to think that settles the matter. He does not seem to understand the import of everything he wrote about the justifications for this insurrection and what he takes to be the benefits – “scared” lawmakers.

            And maybe this double negative that HE wrote is too confusing for him . . .

            “I don’t wish it hadn’t happened.”

            Liked by 1 person

  3. Imagine, just imagine. Had they stopped at the barricades and stayed there, they could have said, “See. Now that’s how to conduct a peaceful protest.”

    But nooooo.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. “What are the people in a democracy supposed to do when they feel their interests and concerns are not being represented?”

    I suggest they take their own advice from 2016: “F*ck your feelings! You lost! Get over it!”

    Liked by 4 people

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