33 thoughts on “Another super-spreader event

  1. The article is paywalled so I can’t read it, but there has been plenty of time since the Tulsa rally for contact tracers to determine if there actually was excessive spreading at that rally.

    I find plenty of articles predicting it would be, but no articles showing evidence that it had happened(note that Tulsa was already in a surge prior to the rally)

    There is preliminary data that the Sturgis motorcycle rally was a superspreader event, but people traveled there form across the country. Tulsa and Nevada rallies are primarily nearby supporters.

    I suspect there may have been significant spread from those events, but suspicion is not evidence, and if there was evidence for Tulsa, we should have seen it by now.

    Like

  2. Sorry about the paywall. I had thought that articles about the pandemic were in front of it.

    Science tells us that the virus is highly contagious and spreads mainly by sharing the same air with a sick person or an asymptomatic carrier. Based on that science the state of Nevada banned indoor gatherings of more than 50 people. Trump held this rally in callous disregard for the lives and health of his supporters and in defiance of state regulations. He really thinks he is above the law. This is one more example.

    This deadly Presidential behavior is part of his pattern of lies, obfuscation, encouragement of dangerous behavior, and suppression of medical expertise that has lead to the deaths of more than 100,000 people who would be alive today if Trump had behaved competently and honestly. We can quibble about the death toll, but the big picture is clear.

    Whatever the evidence of the impact of any particular gathering, the overall evidence is very clear – too early relaxation of careful social distancing has lead directly to a resurgence of the virus. Here and in other countries. The kind of magical wishful thinking that Trump encourages has proven to be catastrophic. And yet, as this rally demonstrates, he still keeps it up.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. “ Mr. Sisolak, in a statement on Twitter earlier Sunday, said Mr. Trump’s decision to hold the rally was “reckless and selfish.” He criticized him for ignoring his state’s rules even though the president has said the Trump administration will defer to governors and local leaders instead of imposing nationwide social distancing requirements.
    “To put it bluntly: he didn’t have the guts to make tough choices—he left that to governors and the states. Now he’s decided he doesn’t have to respect our state’s laws. As usual, he doesn’t believe the rules apply to him,” Mr. Sisolak wrote.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-campaigns-indoor-nevada-rally-draws-governors-ire-11600059050

    And, in a walnut shell, this is how the president has handled the pandemic. Which is why we are “winning” the challenge for the most number of cases and deaths worldwide.

    #LIBERATE

    Liked by 3 people

    1. RE: “Which is why we are ‘winning’ the challenge for the most number of cases and deaths worldwide.”

      What in the world are you talking about? Looking at the John Hopkins critical trends data, I count 10 countries with a higher case fatality rate than ours, and 50 countries with a higher death rate.

      https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

      Like

      1. Most number of cases and deaths, not the rates.

        10th in the world in per capita deaths out of 215 nations and principalities is not exactly a bragging point for the leader among the industrial countries. Except for Spain the nations ahead of us are Third World.

        Liked by 2 people

          1. Maybe our host will remind you that this sort of personal attack is a violation of the rules of this forum?

            There is nothing dishonest about Len’s statement. If you want to make such an accusation you carry a heavy responsibility to show why it is justified.

            For those concerned about the “tone” here, this kind of incivility by Mr. Roberts should be toned way down – especially by those entrusted with some sort of editorial oversight.

            Like

          2. “10th in the world in per capita deaths out of 215 nations”

            THAT is the key measurement. Period. It is also true that in terms of raw numbers we have the highest number of deaths and cases.

            The overall and most salient TRUTH is that It did not have to be this bad. If Trump had lead this nation to be merely average in our response, there would be more than 100,000 people alive today who are now dead. The 52 countries which WHO counts in the “Europe” region have roughly three times our population and roughly 1/3 our number of fatalities. Asian democracies have performed even better.

            By way of the Woodward tapes, we now know that Trump knowingly mislead the American people about the danger. I ask you to imagine your reaction of President Obama had deliberately followed a misguided policy of disinformation on an existential threat and by doing so caused hundreds of thousands of horrible illnesses, countless deaths and wrecked the economy in the process.

            Liked by 1 person

          3. RE: “10th in the world in per capita deaths out of 215 nations”

            I don’t know where you got your numbers. I do know there are only 195 nations in the world. Also, the UJH data I cited ranks the U.S. as 51st out of 168 countries in per capita deaths.

            RE: “The overall and most salient TRUTH is that It did not have to be this bad.”

            Calling your opinion “TRUTH” doesn’t make it so.

            RE: “By way of the Woodward tapes, we now know that Trump knowingly mislead the American people about the danger.”

            We don’t know anything of the kind.

            Like

          4. Thanks for your response.

            “10th worse . . .”
            I was simply quoting Len’s comment. The full comment referred to nations and principalities which may explain the difference in the count.

            There are many different compilations of the per capita death rate from Covid-19. And the rankings change every day. Rankings from June are obsolete in September. Here is one updated through September 14th.

            On this list, the United States is again one of the worst and those countries that are failing even more badly are third world countries. All of them.

            According to everything we know about the virus and the results in other countries, it is demonstrably TRUE that it did not have to be nearly this bad. Our horrible results were entirely predictable given the disinformation, lies and inaction at the top. Joe Biden, for one, very early predicted that very bad things would happen if the administration did not treat the crisis with seriousness. He was right.

            As for Trump knowingly misleading the public, we DO know that happened because Trump stated clearly that playing down the danger was a deliberate choice even though he knew all along that it was far more serious than the seasonal flu. The policy to LIE may have been motivated by concern for the economy or the stock market, but it has proven to be a disastrous decision.

            On this last point, if you will not accept direct evidence from the mouth of Dear Leader for facts you do not like, what kind of evidence will you accept?

            Like

          5. RE: “On this last point, if you will not accept direct evidence from the mouth of Dear Leader for facts you do not like, what kind of evidence will you accept?”

            You haven’t given any “evidence from the mouth of Dear Leader.” But go ahead and quote him directly. I’m betting you attribute state of mind and intentions to Trump that his actual words do not convey.

            Like

          6. “You haven’t given any evidence.”

            Did I really need to? It is all over the news. But in case you missed it Woodward has the President on tape stating IN FEBRUARY how deadly the virus was …

            TRUMP: “It goes through air, Bob. That’s always tougher than the touch. You know, the touch – you don’t have to touch things, right? But the air, you just breathe the air. That’s how it’s passed. And so that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than your – you know, your – even your strenuous flus.”

            And then in March . . .

            “TRUMP: I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down…

            BOB WOODWARD: Yes, sir.

            TRUMP: …Because I don’t want to create a panic.”

            Liked by 1 person

      2. The real point is that Trump is denigrating a state for following medically proven methods to avoid spreading the virus. And these were federal guidelines that states could implement.

        You don’t think Nevada has a right to enforce state law?

        Liked by 1 person

        1. RE: “The real point is that Trump is denigrating a state for following medically proven methods to avoid spreading the virus.”

          Denigrating? OMG!

          Like

          1. “denigrate : criticize unfairly; disparage.”

            The word generously denotes Trump’s behavior. His tweets against state measures to require social distancing are legion. In this instance, his campaign absurdly accused the governor of trying to impinge on the Constitutional right to free speech.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. RE: “I guess the answer is that you do not believe a Nevada has a right to enforce its own laws.”

            Since I didn’t address that issue, yes, you are guessing. But to be responsive: Let Nevada enforce its laws. They could start by arresting BLM protestors for Covid violations. There have been hundreds, perhaps thousands of Covid violations by BLM supporters. If Nevada hasn’t been enforcing Covid violations against the protestors, I doubt the Trump campaign can be successfully prosecuted.

            Like

          3. “There have been hundreds, perhaps thousands of Covid violations by BLM supporters.”

            Take a closer look. The MAJORITY of BLM protesters are wearing masks when unable to socially distance. Of the video I saw of the rally, maybe three people were wearing masks.

            Natural selection is coming.

            Like

          4. Further, BLM and others protesting the lawlessness of the Trump administration do not generally hold indoor rallies. The Nevada emergency regulation that Trump willfully violated relates to indoor gatherings.

            It is also worth noting that whatever anyone or any group may do with respect to ignoring the law, it is no excuse for the President to hide behind. Doubly so since he is now – laughably – running as a “law and order” President.

            Liked by 1 person

          5. RE: “Take a closer look. The MAJORITY of BLM protesters are wearing masks when unable to socially distance.”

            I doubt that, but it doesn’t matter. I looked for evidence that BLM protesters had been arrested for Covid violations in Nevada and couldn’t find any. Hence, it is unlikely Nevada can prosecute the campaign successfully.

            Like

          6. “I doubt that” … “I looked for evidence that BLM protesters had been arrested for Covid violations in Nevada and couldn’t find any.”

            Because there aren’t any. DUH!

            If you look at the videos of the OUTDOOR protests you will plainly see the majority of participants wearing masks or some other face covering. Masks at INDOOR Trump rallies are almost non-existent.

            Your attempts at denial are amazing, sickening, and ….. dense.

            Like

          7. RE: “If you look at the videos of the OUTDOOR protests you will plainly see the majority of participants wearing masks or some other face covering.”

            What videos have you seen? Were they specific to Nevada? Did you watch videos of every protest in Nevada, or are you just making assumptions?

            Like

    2. So the dear governor first complains that daddy Trump didnt tell him and other states what to do and expected him to act like a governor? Poor baby. Then he complains that a rally was held indoors after he repeatedly tried to thwart Trump from spreading his message and vision in appropriate outdoor venues? So far, all I hear from bobblehead Democrats is Trump bad, not a peep on what they or Biden is trying to sell as a plan. However, actions or, better yet, inactions speak louder than words and Democrat run cities in chaos and meltdown tells me plenty. Trump 2020…

      Like

      1. …” he repeatedly tried to thwart Trump from spreading his message and vision”…

        Not his vision and message; the contagion that he lied to all of us about to avoid panic….which is his vision and message.

        ”’a plan”…

        Educate yourself on Biden’s plan and the Democratic Platform for 2020. It’s out there for those who are truly interested. The Trump plan and GOP platform is 2016 redux. Some plan.

        Like

        1. Educate yourself instead. All democrats have offered is endless promises of OPM, wealth envy, racial pandering and zero specifics on how they would do anything different with the pandemic. If they did, they would sink like a rock.

          Like

          1. If you would actually educate yourself outside of the Fox/Breitbart bubble, you might see an actual plan other than “2016 was good enough for us. No need to do anything differently.”

            Like

  4. Personal responsibility.

    While the sponsors of events should be smarter about holding these events…it all comes down to the individuals making the decision to attend them.

    Ya’ll can continue to poke each other in the eye regarding the shortfalls and failures of the other guy’s political party. Personally, I find all of them to be lacking across a broad spectrum of topics. Further? If ya’ll were as tough on your preferred party things would be much better.

    Like

  5. Personal responsibility.

    No one can disagree how important personal responsibility is, but that does not exonerate someone who organizes a very dangerous indoor gathering and entices people to intend while preparing them with disinformation. If a trusted figure – say the President of the United States – tells people that the danger of Covid-19 is de minimis and they believe him, it is hard to see how they have failed to exercise personal responsibility by attending. Of course, one might say that they are responsible to educate themselves from reliable sources and should know by now that Trump is a habitual liar, but in reality a significant proportion of the population are simply unable to do that. That does not mean they are irresponsible.

    Liked by 1 person

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s