Something good, for a change

A world class facility that will bring lots of good things to Virginia Beach? Count me in!

25 thoughts on “Something good, for a change

  1. Who is paying for this? The citizens of VA Beach?

    Of the 460,000 residents, how many will ever attend a track meet?

    Entertainment venues should be paid for by ticket sales and not subsidized by taxpayers.


    1. It’s called an investment. I thought you knew what that was. The revenues from ticket sales, hotel and meal taxes and other monies going into the local economy will offset the initial investment over time. Plus it adds new jobs, brings more people to the Oceanfront area on a year-round basis, and helps put VB on the map as an indoor sports venue for numerous events.

      I take it you didn’t like the movie “Field of Dreams”, either?


      1. In Field of Dreams, the farmer built the field at his own expense, accepting the risk that no one would show up.

        There is no evidence that any non-professional sports venue ever recovers the cost to the taxpayer.

        In any case, the citizens of VA Beach should be able to choose their own “investments” and would certainly choose something less risky.

        This is nothing but cronyism, which will generate revenue for certain businesses at the public’s expense. If this is such a good thing for the hotel and restaurant industries, then they should pay for it themselves.


        1. …’something less risky.”

          The risk has already been mitigated by the first event scheduled. The potential for more events coming, once normalcy returns to our lives, is extremely high. So, as a VB tax payer, I am OK with this one.

          …”they should pay for it themselves.”

          They have, through the taxes paid to the city via meals and room taxes. The revenue generated will benefit not just a few, but all in VB. Increased tax revenues help with the multitude of city services we expect for our tax dollars.

          Where is the cronyism in this instance? It seems you assume that this is the case here because it is an Oceanfront area project. Contrary to popular belief, not all projects are Bruce Thompson’s.


          1. The hotel and restaurant industries are a net drain on the Tidewater economy. providing mostly seasonal, minimum wage jobs whose workers consume more in services than they pay in taxes.

            The citizens of Va Beach would experience a net increase in their standard of living if the tourism business disappeared entirely.


          2. That is one of the most delusional things you have said and is economically inaccurate.

            …:providing mostly seasonal, minimum wage jobs”… Kind of the point of a facility such as this one. It opens things up to more year-round activities.

            Please just stay in your Utopian compound in Chesapeake and stay out of VB.


          3. Tell you what. Get rid of the 11% meals tax at restaurants in Chesapeake and all of Tidewater that exclusively goes to benefiting the Resort Strip in VA Beach and you might make a case.


        2. …” the citizens of VA Beach should be able to choose their own “investments””…

          That is how representative democracy works. You select your representatives to do what they think is in the best interest of their constituents. If you don’t like what they have done, you have a voice at the ballot box. But I notice in Chesapeake, the participation rate in local city elections is so low, that only a small handful of people choose who represents the entire city.

          I have an inkling about what you will say about voters in Chesapeake, so you need not take the time.


          1. When did it become a function of government for it to invest on my behalf, and when do we get our dividend checks?

            The only beneficiaries are the hotel and restaurant industries.


          2. …”our dividend checks”…

            How about your police and fire services? What about roads leading to and from your place of residence to where you shop and dine and FISH? Those are the dividends of a tax base that benefits ALL of us..

            And when LOCAL businesses thrive, including hotels and restaurants, the entire local economy thrives.


          3. Nope. As Councilman Moss has demonstrated every year, the Resort Strip and its employees consume more in city services than they pay in taxes.

            The citizens of VA Beach subsidize the Resort Strip, and get zero payback.


          4. “Councilman Moss”

            yeah, I don’t agree with him on very much. And I find his ideas to be antithetical to a successful 21st century city. He woulda been perfect for the 50’s.


    2. RE: “Entertainment venues should be paid for by ticket sales and not subsidized by taxpayers.”

      This a bigger, more significant concern than many may realize.

      Public investment in an entertainment venue may cause higher cash flows in the local economy, but not everyone will be on the immediate receiving end. Everyone pays a little to increase the cash flow, but only a few (comparatively) get the benefit. The result is a kind of lottery in which many participate, but few become winners.

      For comparison, consider the investment in a true public good, like a roadway or a water system. With a true public good, everyone pays a little, and everyone is able to participate equally in the benefit.

      Entertainment is consumption, but it is ultimately impossible to socialize consumption.


        1. RE: “So is infrastructure [a form of consumption].”

          Nope. Consider a bridge. By virtue of its physical attributes it increases the mechanical efficiency of transportation. That increase is production.


          1. The bridge did not build itself. The builders bought steel, rivets, concrete, pile drivers, wires, etc.

            Also, the bridge needs maintenance, repairs, inspections, etc., that are bought by consumers through taxes, tolls, etc.

            Liked by 1 person

      1. “Entertainment is consumption”…

        It is also part of the economy of many places. To say it doesn’t benefit goes against the majority of economists. The only ones who think otherwise are Libertarian minded ones who believe in rainbows and unicorns. My dad told me that once. And the more I read what you and Don post, the more I see he was right.


      2. …” like a roadway or a water system. With a true public good, everyone pays a little, and everyone is able to participate equally in the benefit.”…

        Think about this for just a second. Those roadways and water systems (infrastructure) are paid for with tax dollars. When tax dollars are generated, even if they benefit only the area where they are generated, that frees up tax dollars generated elsewhere that don’t have to go towards those specific areas.

        In the case of entertainment districts (ie, the Oceanfront) additional tax dollars are generated by the out-of-towners who come to enjoy what is here. So we get the benefit of not only our own taxes paid, but also those from our visitors.

        And if you don’t want to pay taxes at the Oceanfront establishments, don’t go.


        1. RE: “Think about this for just a second.”

          You should take your own advice by focusing on the difference between consumption and production.


          1. An economy has both production and consumption. While an entertainment or sports venue provides a different service than a bridge, both are necessary in a diverse economy. Other wise all we have are producers and the drones they underpay to provide them with wealth.

            The Really Useful Company (real, look it up) produces entertainment. JTR consumes it by purchasing ticket(s) to said production. They are intertwined pieces of the economy. Can’t have one without the other.

            And if you don’t like entertainment, I fell sorry for you.


        2. I don’t go to the oceanfront, but I pay a meal tax that goes to promoting the Resort Strip every time I go to a restaurant in Chesapeake, or even Suffolk.


          1. I tend to believe most of what you say on things of this nature, but would you be so kind as to point out the source for your statement? I tried to find the taxing regulation that you address, but was unable to find anything and I would like to see exactly what you are talking about.


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