The outcome of long term Consevative thinking:
“Due to the meatpacking, though, that’s where the Brown County got the (corona virus) flare. It wasn’t just the regular folks in Brown County,” Wisconsin Supreme Court Chief Justice Patience Roggensack said.
Huck Finn: “Well, running aground wasn’t the real problem—that only held us up a little. We also blew out a cylinder head .”
Aunt Sally: “Good gracious! anybody hurt?”
Huck Finn: “No’m. Killed a n——.”
Aunt Sally: “Well, that’s lucky, because sometimes people get hurt.”
Tidewater News and Opinion Forum 
The ugly truth.
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Presuming racism to be a conservative trait is its own form of bigotry.
If you listen to the rhetoric of many deep south populist white supremacists, they are politically to the left of Paul on issues of corporations and redistribution. .
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@Tabor
“Presuming racism to be a conservative trait is its own form of bigotry.”
Observations based on evidence is not “presuming.” Bigotry consists of denying the evidence in front of you.
In addition, the word “conservative” has lost its original meaning in American politics. Its decline towards synchrony with white supremacy began with Ronald Reagan’s “Welfare queens” and “bucks buying steaks with food stamps” campaign comments. It has continued down that road ever since. And landed with the “conservative” race-baiter we now have in the White House. The overlap is not perfect but is very, very substantial.
There may be some but very, very few “leftist” white supremacists. This is somewhat akin to the racist argument that “I cannot be racist because I have a black friend.”
You really do not understand what is happening on the left in this country if you think that I am some sort of extreme leftist. Unlike you I am a pragmatist. If something is broken, I want it fixed. Our healthcare finance system for example. Or the way we finance higher education. Or the way we provide for basic human needs through a dog’s breakfast of broken programs.
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Nope. In the deep south, they’re nearly all leftists on economic issues.
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Hell Don, “in the Deep South” you can now be murdered for jogging while Black.
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@Tabor
See that flag on the ground there . . .
It is a BULLSHIT flag.
But my oh my, aren’t those facts that you make up handy for proving a point!
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It’s the political landscape I grew up with.
Wealth envy and racism very much go hand in hand in populist politics among the remaining racists down south. I suspect they both stem from the same self hatred and inadequacy.
In many ways though, much of the south has put racism behind them.
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@Tabor
You cannot fool an old fooler. My mother was Georgia born and bred and I grew up living in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia. Maybe Louisiana was different but I sincerely doubt it.
“Wealth envy” is NOT actually a thing motivating progressive – or if you prefer – leftist politics so now there are two bullshit flags on the ground. I know that is how you would like to think of it, but you are kidding yourself. Sick and tired of people being economically abused is not “wealth envy.”
As for “remaining racists down south” – nice turn of phrase but its connotation that there are not many is bogus. Any state that is solidly behind Donald Trump is full of them.
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“In many ways though, much of the south has put racism behind them.”
Yes, overt racism has toned down considerably. Terror is no longer the tool of apartheid. Laws have been passed that secure rights for all races.
Yet, when SCOTUS ruled against a portion of the voting rights act, the ink was hardly dry on the document before NC jumped on a chance to disenfranchised minority voters with election law changes that, as the federal judge said, “targeting minority voters with surgical precision.”
Which is very telling when it comes to race relations that are still a problem.
But as I have said many times, after 350 years of both slavery and apartheid, enforced by law and terror, it is hard to expect cultures that supported that to change in a generation or two. I think the response to the SCOTUS ruling is very telling in that regard.
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You’re confusing partisanship with racism. If blacks were voting Republican, the GOP would be driving them to the polls.
racism is dying in the South a lot faster than I would have hoped, Culture is leading the law.
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“If blacks were voting Republican, the GOP would be driving them to the polls.”
Instead they do everything in their power to prevent the black population from voting. And if you try to deny THAT fact, you can expect another “flag on the play.”
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@Tabor
Nobody is confused. Except those who want to be.
On the whole, African-Americans do not vote Republican for very rational reasons. Decades ago, the leaders of the Republican Party consciously decided – for short term political gain – to pander to and stimulate white racism. They got what that wanted. If you are a racist you are very, very likely to be a Republican.
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As someone who considers themselves a small “c” conservative I’d agree that the definition has essentially become useless in American politics.
The trump cabal is many things, “Conservative“ is NOT one of them…
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No, not racism. Psychology. People CHOOSE to be Conservatives. Rand chooses to be more of a racist than white supremacists.
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If you listen to the right with regards to immigrant labor, legal and illegal, it is couched in phony economics but under all that is a fear of white minority status.
Who are the “essential” workers? A big portion are immigrants. Who are we requiring to go back to work at great risk to their lives?
We sit nice and cozy in our gated compounds wondering why our food supply might dwindle?
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RE: “Presuming racism to be a conservative trait is its own form of bigotry.”
True.
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@Roberts
Yeah, THAT would be true. But no one here is “presuming.”
Follow the evidence. Seeing clear evidence of something is not to presume. It is to think.
For example anyone who still supports Trump considers themselves to be “conservative.” Trump got into office with egregious race baiting about Obama’s citizenship, Mexicans and Muslims. He continue to do it today most recently with his refusal to follow the WHO name for the virus. That they supported and still followed this fellow is EVIDENCE that very many modern “conservatives” are racists.
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RE: “For example anyone who still supports Trump considers themselves to be ‘conservative.'”
Archie Bunker couldn’t have said it better: They are all alike.
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Yes. Trump supporters are all alike. They claim conservative status, but in actuality they have co-opted the word from actual conservatives. (ie, George Conway’s group).
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@Roberts
Well, the statement you do not like is too absolute to be categorically correct. I accept your critique. I should have written . . .
“Most people who still supports Trump considers themselves to be ‘conservative.’”
With respect to you I believe the statement applies. If memory serves you do call yourself “conservative” and clearly (for reasons that are not obvious) you continue to support Mr. Trump. Quite strongly in fact.
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Amazing how essential American workers are the lowest paid. We rely so heavily on those who work in the 47% of jobs that pay at or less than $15/hour. That is the new minimum wage in many states, or will be in a few years.
And now when the meat industry is slowing down, the administration is pressuring the workers to return.
I wonder how many undocumented workers are in the grueling poultry and meat packing plants. Or in the entire food industry for that matter. Can they benefit from the cash flowing out of the federal coffers? Or the medical benefits for COVID treatments?
With so many in our economy living paycheck to paycheck contrasted with the overblown and debt driven DOW, are the foundations of our economy illusionary?
Suppose we had an economy in which every individual and business were able to have enough cash on hand to survive a few months’ shutdown. How much money could the feds have saved without needing trillions pumped in to keep people from starving or businesses alive?
Capitalism could easily work with such parameters. And perhaps it is time for economists to adjust what is considered a healthy economy versus one that is so dependent upon debt.
Conservatives have clamored for decades about a balanced budget. Yet every time, without fail, when they take control we get mired in debt due to a borrow and spend philosophy.
Years ago, Trump’s Taj Mahal Casino in Atlantic City was sold due to mismanagement, heavy debt and little business. By then the decorations, the glitz, and the actual facade were falling apart. It has been condemned as a hazard. All show, no cash flow.
I can’t help but think that such a business philosophy of bankruptcy as a good thing (Trump has bragged about making himself rich through the bankruptcies as a sign of business acumen.) is now becoming fashionable. The difference being that bailouts were paid by investor losses and Fred Trump. Outside money.
We don’t have those options.
All this is MHO. No economists were hurt during this rant.
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Good rant.
“adjust what is considered a healthy economy versus one that is so dependent upon debt.“
But THAT’S just crazy talk…
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Maybe I would change your use of “conservative” to GOP (at least THIS current version).
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RE: “And perhaps it is time for economists to adjust what is considered a healthy economy versus one that is so dependent upon debt.”
Economists generally are highly in favor of immigration as a feature of free trade. This is the mainstream view, and one that conservatives and libertarians alike have always promoted.
I have some heartburn with this line of reasoning, but feel compelled to point out that your criticism of economists and conservatives is misplaced.
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…”economists and conservatives is misplaced.”…
Not really. The criticism points out the hypocrisy of “conservatives” and economists.
Not misplaced criticism. Just an opinion you disagree with and have no actual defense for your own hypocrisies.
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RE: “Not really. The criticism points out the hypocrisy of ‘conservatives’ and economists.”
Mr. Rothman’s critique paints conservatives and economists as being anti-immigration. This is inaccurate as a matter of record.
What hypocrisy are you talking about?
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Any “conservative” that agrees with “Build the wall” yet wants immigrant workers to come in and pick their veggies, prune their hedges, clean their hotels, or take care of their children or elderly family members shows the hypocrisy. A lot of businesses count on the undocumented to do the work I highlighted, but they do not pay the price when their businesses are raided. They just wait for the next batch to cross.
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I did not say that economists or conservatives were anti-immigration.
But since you brought that up, I would certainly say that the present administration is highly anti-immigration and it plays to the fears of many that we may become a white minority. Miller is the driver and Trump is the player.
They both want to restrict legal immigration and, of course, have ranted to cheering crowds about the evils perpetrated by the Mexicans crossing the border.
And yet we are so dependent upon a cheap, compliant workforce that can be exploited. And the efforts to curtail such practice is designed to tip toe around the culprits, which are the employers. Employers that so ironically included Trump businesses. Hypocrisy, OMG!
Now that we have settled what I did say, and did not, I still think we need to wonder why we have such a fragile economy built on low wages for 1/2 the jobs in America. And then when a crisis hits, these workers are suddenly so essential that we want to put them back on the front lines of a pandemic so we can be safe in our homes.
If labor compensation is dependent upon demand in the marketplace, then these workers, many without benefits, such as sick leave or health insurance, are in high demand, but the pay is paltry still.
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I stand a bit corrected.
In a shorter comment, I did say:
“If you listen to the right with regards to immigrant labor, legal and illegal, it is couched in phony economics but under all that is a fear of white minority status.”
Economists are not listed as anti-immigrant.
But the right most assuredly is. And the present regime is driving that jalopy as fast as it can.
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Your mea culpa was unnecessary.
Todd misunderstood and exaggerated (again) to make his invalid point.
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So good had to post it on two different threads.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/07/azar-coronavirus-meatpacking-workers-241915
Scapegoat the workers because they don’t live in 3,000 sq ft mansions.
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3000 ft “mansions”
Maybe 30,000 feet would qualify. If not, than I am living the high life if I count my garage and shed.
Just joshin’ of course. Your point is on the money.
Maybe the folks doing the daily testing of Trump, Pence and the boys could move to S, Dakota and do daily testing on the “really essential workers”.
Just sayin’.
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3,000 sqft is a McMansion.
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Even the quarter pounder ain’t a quarter pound…
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It’s like my dad claiming to be “almost 6 feet tall” and when I hit actual 6 feet, I could not figure out how I was so much taller than him. I was 15.
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The fine print does say “pre-cooked weight”.
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…”if I count my garage and shed.”
I try not to count mine either. However, I do spend a lot of time in the garage (working towards man-cave status). The shed, on the other hand, once I put in a loft bed and a ladder to reach it, may be my “dog house” when the Mrs. decides I need to sleep elsewhere.
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When you consider how many of those meat plant workers live, 3,000 feet WOULD be a mansion. Mc’ or otherwise.
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More succinctly, the 3000 ft. building for meatpacking workers would be a barracks.
A good article in Propublica outlines the conflict between health of workers and local residents versus the economics and politics of forced openings.
https://www.propublica.org/article/what-happened-when-health-officials-wanted-to-close-a-meatpacking-plant-but-the-governor-said-no
My opinion is that if the president or governors force plants to reopen we need to consider a generous increase in wages, like double or triple, as hazardous duty pay. Pricey meat is evidently better than no meat. Consider also the cost of caring do for thousands of meatpackers and the multiples of those that contract the disease in the communities.
If we demand that “essential” workers risk their lives, then we better be prepared to pay them commensurate with their value to our economy.
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