A president encouraging civil disobedience…now that might be a first.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/18/coronavirus-americans-protest-stay-at-home?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1

As it turns out, those “grass roots” protests are funded by the usual suspects of hard right wing ideologues with big money.

Betsy deVos is included in those folks. She has billions in inherited money from Dad’s multi level marketing company. So why not encourage civil disobedience with armed protestors in the middle of a deadly pandemic. I guess she doesn’t have to sweat the virus by working next to infected people.

The really sad part is the regime. “I have absolute power”. “Let the governors decide”. “No, I decide.”

“What’s that? You mean I’m responsible if I decide? Damn!”

“The governors will decide, but my protestors will force them to open or there will big, huge trouble.”

“Hey, not my fault my sheep…er, fans…followers…supporters are protesting. It wasn’t my money that paid for it. NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY!!!”

And so, the president was given a sedative and reassured that it was going to be just fine. It was out of his hands…as planned.

IMHO, but my sources are impeccable.

71 thoughts on “A president encouraging civil disobedience…now that might be a first.

  1. AstroTurf.
    The modern GOP is an unholy combination of billionaires and the suckers they fire up. With all the problems this country has been facing for decades what is the only major legislation they passed when they had full control? Massive tax cuts for billionaires.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. @Roberts

      Please explain why your Dear Leader issued guidelines for the governors one day and then encouraged his followers to #LIBERATE themselves from the people who are following the guidelines he issued the next. Can you?

      Liked by 3 people

      1. My “anonymous sources”, impeccable and trustworthy, explained that already. It’s all about shirking any responsibility.

        Like Pontus Pilate, Trump just washed his hands as the mob called for crucifixion.

        I ask the obvious question: at what point is calling for an uprising against the government treason?

        Liked by 3 people

      2. RE: “Can you?”

        Of course. Your characterization of the issue is simpleminded and false. It is simpleminded because it assumes all lockdowns are equal and it is false because the president’s guidelines don’t dictate any particular lockdown policy.

        The protestors have a good point when they argue that the lockdown policies in Michigan, for example, are irrational, not based in science, and authoritarian.

        Like

        1. “… the president’s guidelines don’t dictate any particular lockdown policy.”

          He must have had some guidelines when he said he had absolute authority.

          Or was that just pure bull poop?

          Liked by 3 people

          1. RE: “He must have had some guidelines when he said he had absolute authority.”

            Of course he has absolute authority. More to the point, governors have no authority to suspend the Constitution, unless the president backs them up.

            Like

          2. @Roberts

            “Of course he has absolute authority”

            Actually that statement is laughable nonsense. And a violation of the idea of federalism that “conservatives” use to hold dear. You know, State’s Rights.

            Liked by 2 people

          3. RE: “And a violation of the idea of federalism that ‘conservatives’ use to hold dear.”

            Not at all. The presidency is the only office in our system with the power to suspend the Constitution. Congress can’t do it. The courts can’t. The states can’t.

            But the president can, and has at various times in history. I don’t recommend it, but what’s laughable is pretending the president doesn’t have that kind of power.

            Like

          4. These presidential powers came later. Emergency laws, the latest in 1976, have added so many powers it is ridiculous.

            Before that only Congress could take extraordinary measures to override certain Constitutional rights.

            So you may have a point. Considering Trump’s past, and present threats, to suspend media, torture people and now force people to work in a pandemic it might be a good idea for Congress to halt that crap and take control as the founders wanted.

            Liked by 2 people

          5. RE: “Before that only Congress could take extraordinary measures to override certain Constitutional rights.”

            What in the world are you talking about? Congress has never had either the authority or the power to override the Constitution in any way. The Courts can strike down any law Congress passes. Apart from that, Congress has no command over the law enforcement and military resources of the United States.

            Like

        2. @Roberts

          Simple minded? Stones and glass houses, dude.

          Not based on science? As a matter of fact the ONLY thing that we have that can stop the virus and lower the death toll is social distancing. In Virginia a lot of us took social distancing seriously fairly early and that is the only reason we have not become another epicenter. Giving up what works while the virus rages all around us is a really, really stupid thing to do.

          The reality is that there is no reasonable explanation for what Trump does on anything. He acts on nothing but random impulses. Len got it right in his initial post. I don’t need to repeat it.

          Liked by 2 people

          1. RE: “In Virginia a lot of us took social distancing seriously fairly early and that is the only reason we have not become another epicenter.”

            You don’t know that, and you certainly can’t prove it. Point being, if you won’t confine yourself to factual assertions, why should anything you say be taken seriously?

            Like

          2. @Roberts

            I DO know that.

            Unless you have another explanation to explain why the outbreak here is far less serious than in other places. Absent a widespread vaccination program there is no other reasonable explanation. By the time it got here, we in this area, had plenty of information from earlier hotspots. The last time I was in a public place was over a month ago. Other posters here report similar behavior. Probably you have been very careful about social distancing as well. Maybe not since you love LIBERTY so much.

            Liked by 2 people

          3. RE: “Unless you have another explanation to explain why the outbreak here is far less serious than in other places.”

            I do, but it is not proved by science either, and I wouldn’t be such a fool as to claim it is the only reasonable explanation.

            Like

          4. @Roberts

            Okay, I will bite. You claim to have another reasonable explanation besides social distancing that explains our relative good fortune. What is it? Since you did not offer it, I believe that you actually do not have one that makes any sense. So, go ahead, prove me wrong.

            Liked by 1 person

          5. RE: “What is it?”

            I suspect that Virginia may be like California in that the virus may have been present for awhile before it was detected. A combination of pre-existing immunity plus geographical distancing may have played a larger role than social distancing in slowing the spread.

            Like

          6. @Roberts

            Only the President can suspend the Constitution?

            Still laughable.

            No one has the power to suspend the Constitution. If you believe that is true please cite the portion of the Constitution that bestows that power.

            Liked by 1 person

          7. @Roberts

            Another epic fail. No wonder you were reluctant to state you secret alternative explanation for our relative good fortune.

            The virus is no more likely to be hidden in our population than anywhere else.
            There is no reason to believe that Virginian’s have more natural immunity than other people.
            And then you mention California (LOL!) which famously instituted social distancing very early in the pandemic and that strong action is given credit for their relatively good showing.

            https://calmatters.org/politics/2020/03/gavin-newsom-california-coronavirus-shutdown-order/

            Liked by 2 people

          8. RE: “If you believe that is true please cite the portion of the Constitution that bestows that power.”

            Don’t be absurd. The Constitution doesn’t contain any self-suspension clauses. It does, however, invest the executive branch with sole control over law enforcement and the military in the United States. As these are the ultimate plenipotentiary sources of power for any government, they confer the ability to suspsend the Constitution.

            Like

          9. RE: “And then you mention California (LOL!) which famously instituted social distancing very early in the pandemic and that strong action is given credit for their relatively good showing.”

            You seem to think so, but your logic is a self-licking ice cream cone.

            Like

          10. @Roberts

            Don’t be absurd?

            Good advice. You should follow it. The ability of the military to overthrow the Constitution by force is not what we are talking about. At least sane and rational people are not talking about that.

            California
            I see you have no way to recover from the foolishness of citing California to bolster your opinion that there is some mechanism known to science other than social distancing that explains our relative good fortune. So out comes some nonsense about ice cream?

            Liked by 1 person

        3. “What in the world are you taking about.”

          The Suspension Clause, Article 1, s. IX

          “The Clause does not specify which branch of government has the authority to suspend the privilege of the writ, but most agree that only Congress can do it. President Abraham Lincoln provoked controversy by suspending the privilege of his own accord during the Civil War, but Congress largely extinguished challenges to his authority by enacting a statute permitting suspension. On every other occasion, the executive has proceeded only after first securing congressional authorization.”

          This is a right in the Constitution that is so important that it is the main body.

          Only Congress is supposed to suspend a writ of habeas corpus. Which is a “certain right” in the Constitution.

          Liked by 1 person

  2. Actually, it is leftist governors and their police-state tactics, who are inflaming the American people. Heck, Ms Whitmer has even forbidden Michiganders from buying seeds to grow backyard vegetable gardens.

    Tucker Calson is right, that woman is a full-blown, fascist police-stater!

    Like

    1. RE: “Tucker Calson is right, that woman is a full-blown, fascist police-stater!”

      Looks that way to me, too. Hence the tacit approval of the compulsive anti-Trumpers.

      Like

      1. As a reminder, do not feed the troll. Only trolls do that.

        Typically, the troll’s comments are based on fabrications. Why associate yourself with such nonsense?

        https://www.clickondetroit.com/features/2020/04/16/did-michigan-ban-gardening-debunking-4-coronavirus-claims-spread-on-social-media/

        https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/facebook-posts/covid-order-doesnt-ban-gardening-or-sale-seeds-and/

        Clueless name calling directed at Michigan’s governor – a state just behind NY, MA and NJ in the seriousness of the issue – makes the name caller seem uh, kinda dumb.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Did you even read your own links?

          No, the purchase of seeds and gardening supplies is not banned, but the seed stores are closed and the portions of the department stores where they are sold have been blocked off as ‘not necessary to sustain life’ so Michiganders can buy them, they just can’t get to them to buy them.

          Whitaker says they can buy seeds online. Go ahead and try.

          Like

          1. Stores that block off gardening areas are 50,000 ft. or larger.

            Plenty of Ace Hardware Stores are a lot smaller. Grocery stores sell plants and seeds in many cases.

            Face it, Trump is encouraging insurrections against our governments.

            That is treason.

            Liked by 2 people

          2. First, Trump did not encourage insurrections, he said people were justified in being angry.

            But more importantly, what is the scientific justification for barring people from purchasing some goods in a store they are otherwise allowed to patronize. Even if they could find a smaller store whose seeds were not already sold out, that only forces them to go to several stores looking instead of getting all they need in one stop.

            Michigan;s governor is just drunk with power and her 15 minutes in the spotlight.

            Like

          3. how did you verify it? Did you place an order?

            That’s when you get the message. My wife tried ordering seeds for beans and only odd varieties could be had on time.

            Like

          4. @Tabor

            “First, Trump did not encourage insurrections, he said people were justified in being angry.”

            Hard as it may be for someone like you to believe, you really do not get to make up your own facts. These are the exact words in those three tweets the day after a small army of armed protesters showed up and surrounded the state capital in Lansing, Michigan.

            “LIBERATE MICHIGAN”
            “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!”
            “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

            If that is not encouraging insurrections against the state government, what would be? Advocating the overthrow of government is a federal crime. Not only is Trump feckless. He is also a criminal. Or is he above the law – again?

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/17/liberate-michigan-trump-constitution/

            Liked by 2 people

          5. Trump is the president of the United States. To step into the armed anti-government protests and take sides with the protestors is not being the president of all Americans and their respective states. And he is encouraging people to break the law which he approved of just a couple of days ago.

            You might not grasp the fact that we are in a serious crisis and a lot of people are on edge and that irresponsible SOB is trying to gain traction with that.

            I am tired of his antics, insults to governors and his our spoken demands that they have show HIM appreciation for doing his job or they might not get assistance.

            Do you have any idea how corrupt, dangerous and divisive that is when we are all very much concerned for our health and the economy?

            Before this crisis he was a bad joke. Now he is a total disgrace.

            Liked by 2 people

          6. @Tabor

            This so typical of the way you misrepresent reality. Your wife tried to buy some seeds that were out of stock and that translates into an unqualified general categorical claim that seeds are not readily available on-line. As you pretend not to know, Amazon is a front for lots of small suppliers and, sure, late in the spring some may be out of some seeds.

            As for my methodology, I noted that many of the listings explicitly stated the quantities still available. I picked three different products at random and took the order process all the way to clicking to pay. In each case I was offered immediate prime shipping or the chance to earn a credit if I could wait a day or two. But no, I did not actually buy something I did not need just to prove you wrong.

            And again, there are thousands of people selling seeds on-line besides Amazon and that includes the same big box stores that have had to close off some areas but NOT prohibited from selling anything they have to sell.

            The troll’s LIE is palpable nonsense. It is categorically untrue and yet you defend it with made up stuff. I ask again, how laughable is that?

            Liked by 3 people

          7. @Tabor

            Your words were . . .

            “First, Trump did not encourage insurrections, he said people were justified in being angry.”

            That was false. He said no such thing. Just another lie. Ho Hum.

            “LIBERATE” especially the day after a significant armed protest threatening state government is a very loaded and violent word and not a mere encouragement to vote. That is bullshit and I think you know that.

            But even so, what kind of jackass abdicates responsibility to the governors and then encourages people to LIBERATE themselves from the actions his own medical advisors say are necessary? Michigan has the fourth worst situation in the country and has been on the cusp of becoming another New York or New Jersey. Armed fools mobbing the state capital do not help.

            Liked by 3 people

          8. @Tabor

            You are REALLY wrong on both counts: my wife bought ALL her seeds and either has already received them or will this coming week.

            As far as “insurrection encouragement” goes the Grifter in Chief certainly DID and for him to throw in the 2nd Amendment comment was simply stupid on a stick. His moron base will take it as a call to arms.

            Defending him at this point is truly embarrassing…

            Liked by 2 people

          9. The 2nd Amendment statement was a reference to the earlier protests, just a reminder of why people in VA should be angry with Democrats.

            It may not be what motivates you, but it motivates a lot of Virginians. Expect Trump to remind us that VA Democrats want to restrict our 2nd Amendment rights on a regular basis between now and November. Pretty much every time he mentions VA, that will be thrown in.

            Like

          10. @Tabor

            Believing that trump’s mention of the 2nd Amendment is in passing reference to the new legislation and NOT a vailed encouragement of violence is naive.

            Liked by 2 people

          11. You’re projecting the liberal mind.

            Conservatives and Libertarians don’t think in terms of using violence to advance a political agenda.

            It’s the left that first goes to force rather than persuasion.

            Like

          12. @Tabor

            Reality is really foreign to you. So comfortable in that imaginary world in your head.

            If “conservatives” do “not think in terms of using violence to advance a political agenda” then explain why the “conservative” mob that was out to LIBERATE MICHIGAN came to the capital brandishing guns? And why is it only “conservatives” and their Dear Leader who bring talk of Second amendment solutions to the public square? And why is it that it is only “conservatives” who hoard weapons to deal with those government thugs?

            Liked by 1 person

          13. Did they shoot anyone? Or brandish their weapons?

            Michigan has one of the strongest militia movements in the country, for them, carrying arms is a form of speech, demonstrating that armed citizens are not a threat.

            Like

          14. Hang with Nazis and march along with chants of “Jews will not replace us” is a freedom of choice I suppose.

            “I was just curious”.

            I do have a question, however. Some of the heavily armed folks hand their AR 15 slung across the chest with the right hand on the grip and fingers across the trigger guard. Sort of like troops in enemy territory on patrol. Who are they ready to shoot? Other Americans? The governor?

            That sure seems like brandishing to me.

            Liked by 2 people

          15. It’s covering the trigger guard so some damn fool doesn’t reach in and pull it. Never trust a safety.

            Note that I do not endorse display of long guns at a protest other than for 2nd Amendment issues, but it is not up to me to tell people how they should express themselves.

            Like

          16. More than a few localities such as Walmart have asked shoppers to not carry long guns. In the era of mass shootings that is not a matter of 2nd Amendment rights as much as courtesy and common sense.

            So my opinion of people that delight in pushing the envelope at anti-government protests armed with long guns and posing is that they are true ass$#@es who care not a whit about other citizens.

            IMHO

            Liked by 2 people

          17. @Tabor

            No, they did not shoot anyone. This time.

            Your answer totally refutes your claim that it is liberals who think in terms of force. We don’t see brandishing weapons as a form of legitimate free speech. You obviously do.

            And yes displaying weapons to make a point IS to brandish those weapons. Just like your made up facts don’t count, neither do your twisted definitions of English words. To brandish a weapon is to display it in such a way as to induce fear. In the case of a supposedly peaceful political protest there is no other plausible reason to bring weapons.

            Liked by 1 person

          18. The peaceful carrying of weapons is a statement of non-violence. That’s the point, that people can disagree, be armed, and remain non-violent.

            It is you who is infected with the idea that good ideas must be asserted by force.

            Like

          19. @Tabor

            RE: “The peaceful carrying of weapons is a statement of non-violence.”

            You mean like the followers of Ghandi marched to sea with their AK-47s peacefully held across their chests. Just so everyone would know how non-violent they were? Or like how Martin Luther King and the Freedom Riders met Bull Connor peacefully wearing bandoleers of bullets and a rifle slung across their backs?

            These peaceful Confederate flag waving militia men did not shoot anybody, so maybe it was like those three guys from the New Black Panther Party who did not hit anybody with those night sticks. Funny, racists did not see those nightsticks being carried as a statement of non-violence. Odd don’t you think?

            If this sarcasm is going over your head, let me be more clear. This is some of your happiest horseshit ever. And that is saying quite a lot.

            Liked by 1 person

          20. That is your opinion, of people you do not know, and do not care to try to understand.

            But it must be true because you say so, even if you act out of total ignorance, guided only by your own prejudice.

            Liked by 1 person

          21. @Tabor

            It is not about understanding people and what motivates them. It is about pushing back when someone spews happy horseshit. Non-violent protest has a long and honorable history full of great and actually courageous people. Silly people who bring weapons to political gatherings do not get to claim to be any part of that history simply because they did not actually shoot someone. Add to that the fact that they endanger themselves and others with their obvious lack of social distancing and we now have people skirting around the edge – not just of threats – but of criminality.

            I also push back at hypocrisy and the double standard of racism. You were very vocal in your condemnation of those people carrying nightsticks and you did not see the fact that they did not hit anybody as evidence of non-violence. You rightly saw, in that case, that brandishing weapons is meant to intimidate. Why not in this case?

            Liked by 1 person

          22. If you are incapable of violence, you can’t be non-violent. You are just impotent.

            In order to be truly non-violent, you must be prepared to do violence and choose not to.

            Like

          23. @Tabor

            So, in your view to be a truly non-violent protest it has to have behind it the overt threat of violence which is magnanimously being withheld. So, of course, these militia HAD to bring their guns to prove how truly non-violent they are as they surrounded the governor’s mansion chanting “Lock her up!” If they left their guns at home, how would you know that they could kill you if they wanted to, but they don’t really want to. Because, of course, they are committed to non violent protest, true non-violent protest where you brandish the weapons to prove you do not intend to use them. Have I got that?

            But even worse, without those guns they would seem impotent (your word) which brings us full circle to an understanding what motivates these gun-carrying fanatics.

            Liked by 2 people

        2. @Tabor

          What medical experts? I do not know them by name but it was whoever advised that very strict social distancing was the ONLY way to suppress the virus without unnecessary loss of life. Accordingly, the state order in Michigan is for people to stay at home except for absolute essentials. Big box stores sell lots of things not in that category – including seeds and gardening supplies – so the idea was to let it be known there was no point in risking your health or the health of the public by going to these big box stores to shop for those non-essentials.

          This is not a time for half measures and if tens of thousands of deaths in a few weeks and a going rate in the THOUSANDS every day do not convince you of that , I suppose nothing will.

          Liked by 1 person

        3. @Tabor

          I do not consider the lunatic fringe that believe What trump says either conservatives nor libertarians.

          And I would not know what the “liberal” mindset is…

          Liked by 2 people

      2. RE: “As a reminder, do not feed the troll. Only trolls do that.”

        thaddeuskosciuszko is a forum user in good standing. Your name-calling, however, is out of line.

        Morever, nothing in his comment is factually incorrect. Your own fact check confirms that Micheganders cannot buy gardenning supplies in certain venues (because they can’t enter the part of the stores where the supplies are available).

        Like

        1. @Roberts

          The statement . . .

          “Ms Whitmer has even forbidden Michiganders from buying seeds to grow backyard vegetable gardens.”
          . . . is an outright lie. And easily proven to be such.

          TK enjoys being a troll so he should not mind be called a troll. I recommend that nobody should feed trolls what they crave.

          And, yes he is in good standing. We DO allow trolls.
          Your trying to spin this outright lie into the truth proves that.

          Liked by 2 people

        2. So it did not ban the buying of seeds. Just if they were in certain venues. Plenty of options I am sure.

          TK lied.

          “… Ms Whitmer has even forbidden Michiganders from buying seeds.”

          She did not.

          You are factually wrong.

          Liked by 2 people

          1. Ok, where and how can they buy them?

            Gardening shops are closed, and the gardening sections of big box stores are roped off. Online supplies are nil.

            So, the very sensible precaution of growing your on vegetables in case they become hard to buy later is at best made difficult and likely impossible.

            Please explain the scientific basis for blocking access to seeds?

            Like

          2. Plenty of places to buy seeds at smaller venues like local hardware stores. $30 gets you 30 packets of seeds on Amazon by next week.

            Liked by 3 people

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