Treaty with Ukraine on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters

https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/106th-congress/16/document-text

This came up on TV last night, so I looked it up for verification. An argument might be made that Joe Biden violated the terms of the treaty (Article 5(4)) by demanding Ukraine’s prosecutor be fired, but that’s just a layman’s view.

31 thoughts on “Treaty with Ukraine on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters

  1. A valid argument if it was only the US/Biden. However, the majority of the western allies of Ukraine were making the same calls.

    Gotta remember the entire story is more important than just cherry picked tidbits to advance an argument.

    Liked by 2 people

        1. RE: “Well, for one can you prove they fired him because of the US/Biden and not because of the UK/Cameron request?”

          Does it matter? We know from Biden himself that he made the demand. That alone would violate the treaty, theoretically.

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          1. Then… if he violated the Treaty, he violated US law (since Treaties are US law) and is subject to investigation by the DoJ, hence the President violated his right to due process when he requested that the Ukraine investigate without an open investigation by the DoJ … WHICH IS AN ABUSE OF POWER…

            We keep going in these same circles.

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          2. BTW, Article 5(4) merely allows the Requested State (Ukraine in this case) to postpone, or seek redress, prior to executing a request.

            Since they didn’t do so,…

            The only question is “Was Biden the Central Authority of the United States?”

            To wit: For the United States, the Central Authority shall be the Attorney General or a person designated by the Attorney General.

            Well, let’s ask Loretta if’n she gave such designation to Joe.

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      1. Let’s just say that an alliance of allies all said the same thing. And if the Ukrainian government had issue with the demand, they could have easily invoked the articles of the treaty. They did not, so a nothingburger with cheese hold the pickles, it is.

        And let’s not forget the truth about the prosecutor in question. He was more corrupt that those he was supposed to be prosecuting.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. RE: “He was more corrupt that those he was supposed to be prosecuting.”

          Several people on TV last night disputed that view. I would say it is not a factual observation at present, just an allegation.

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          1. Change the channel. While some have disputed the view, I have heard more about his corruption.

            “I would say it is not a factual observation at present, just an allegation.” And you could say the same thing about quid pro quo in the Biden issue. But you won’t because it doesn’t advance your argument.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. RE: “And you could say the same thing about quid pro quo in the Biden issue.”

            I don’t have to. Biden himself bragged about the quid pro quo he wanted.

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  2. At the risk of sounding like a centrist doofus, the Bidens are wrong; Trump is wrong. Trump asking for “a favor” before selling missiles is a quid pro quo. Hunter Biden making $600k a year from a foreign company while his father is VP is a quid pro quo.

    This is what the ruling class does. Biden and Trump have more in common with each other than they do with any of us.

    Those of us who want to see the end of Trump better hope the democrats don’t focus only on this Ukraine fiasco, because Trump will (correctly) point right at Biden. They have got to stop pushing Biden and expand the scope of the investigation.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. “Hunter Biden making $600k a year from a foreign company while his father is VP is a quid pro quo.” I disagree with your sentiment. Did Joe Biden contact the company and ask them to put Hunter on the board and tell them if they did he would do something in return? Or did the company put Hunter on the board to use the Biden name to try and give them more legitimacy because of the issues they were having as being viewed as corrupt? (As I heard reported recently on NPR).

      The conflict of interest argument is a better one than the quid pro quo one. – IMHO

      Liked by 3 people

    2. “Hunter Biden making $600k a year from a foreign company while his father is VP is a quid pro quo”

      Not remotely true, and Biden’s son making money on that board is in no way a reflection on Biden as VP at the time. They are simply separate and distinct issues and done routinely in the huge corporate jungle.

      Having said that; I desperately hope the Dems can do better than Biden as their candidate.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. The election laws say that it is a crime to “solicit” assistance from a foreign country. It doesn’t say “pressure” or “bribe”, or “blackmail”. It says “SOLICIT”, ya know, like “You gotta date tonight, Sugar?”, or “Say, do me a favor.”

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Which election law is that?

      If a President were to offer Israel and the Palestinians aid if they adhered to a treaty that brought lasting peace to the middle east, that would certainly help that President get reelected.

      As people are interpreting Trump’s actions here, it would seem that hypothetical President would also be guilty.

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      1. 52 U.S.C. § 30121 – U.S. Code – Unannotated Title 52. Voting and Elections § 30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

        to wit: It shall be unlawful for–

        (1)  a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make–

        (A)  a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

        (B)  a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party;  or

        (C)  an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title);  or

        (2)  a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. SPECIFICALLY:

        It shall be unlawful for–a person to solicit–other thing of value–in connection with a Federal, State, or local election

        Again, solicit, e.g., “do me a favor”.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. –other thing of value–

          That does not appear in the law you cited. It was specific in what kind of contribution was covered. as in a material thing or donation. A criminal investigation would not be covered unless a false outcome were demanded.

          Further, if you read the transcript, you will see that “Do us a favor” is followed by a request for cooperation in investigating corruption in the Ukraine affecting the 2016 election, starting with Crowdstrike and going on to the dismissal of prosecutors and other corruption before getting to the possibility of corruption by Biden and/or his son.

          But if you want to go to impeachment based on that, go for it.

          I want as many Democrats sent home in 2020 as possible.

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      3. Not even close. Pushing for a treaty of peace in order to receive aid is a lot different than a president withholding aid to get “dirt” on a political rival. And there would be no personal lawyer or toady AG involved in the process.

        The fact that you even try to compare the two shows how desperate you are to protect this immoral, law breaking president.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. RE: “a president withholding aid to get ‘dirt’ on a political rival”

          Another questionable allegation. The president’s motives are not known, other than by his own words, which merely requested the issue be looked into.

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      4. Good example Doc… now, where the personal gain for Trump?

        To make your example MORE to the point “If a President were to offer Israel and the Palestinians aid if they adhered to a treaty that brought lasting peace and a Trump Casino to the middle east…”

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  4. Clutch at straws much as Dear Leader sinks under the weight of his lies and crimes?

    I wonder how long it will be before you share a link to a story exposing the Whistleblower and the IG as agents of the Clinton/Obama “deep state” still trying to drag down the last honorable man in DC?

    Liked by 2 people

      1. “There’s no shortage of links like that.” And you know where every single one is?

        This will be the third time I have used this LTE today. It fits so well.

        https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/vp-ed-lete-0927-20190927-kr44oo554nacnouup7cmqggnia-story.html

        Trying to make the story about Biden is EXACTLY what I expected Trump supporters to do. Deny and deflect. No acknowledgement whatsoever that what Trump did falls under the category of “high crimes and misdemeanors”. And referring to those who passed the info to the whistleblower as spies is about as ironic as things get.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. RE: “No acknowledgement whatsoever that what Trump did falls under the category of ‘high crimes and misdemeanors’.”

          You say it does. I say it doesn’t.

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    1. That’s not so far off. The current push is to make an issue of how the file for the transcript was stored.

      But it turns out that ALL of the President’s conversations with foreign leaders for the last 2 years have been stored the same way, as a precaution because his conversations with other foreign leaders (Australia and one other) were leaked by exactly the kind of deep state saboteurs you reference.

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      1. The essence of the transcript storage issue is that it is an abuse of the record storage security system because it is being used to hide political embarrassments and not to protect national security. And, it is alleged that efforts to bury this particular conversation were unusually intense – the people around Trump know a crime when they see it.

        These so-called “deep state saboteurs” who Trump seriously suggested are spies who should be shot are, in fact, the staffers that Trump has brought in and surrounded himself with. It is clear from the Whistleblower complaint is that the source of his information was not eavesdropping or spying but simply listening to the complaints of the people around Trump.

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        1. You’re going off the deep end in desperation.

          If this file were being treated differently than the others, you could make that case, but after repeated leaks of these conversations, which other countries expect to be kept private, they were ALL stored on a different, restricted access, government server, not a private server under the President’s personal control.

          This is normal practice for sensitive files.

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  5. Something else in this troubles me. Should we be supplying Ukraine with weapons to kill Russian soldiers in the first place?

    We may be taking the wrong side in this fight. What is in question is whether the Crimea should be part of the Ukraine or part of Russia. Historically, the area was part of Russia before the Soviet Union. The people there are ethnic Russians. During the Soviet era, the government feared concentrations of ethnic groups as sources of disunity, and shifted the Crimea to Ukraine to break up the Russian concentration and dilute the Ukrainian population.

    A plebiscite there showed 95% of the Crimeans want to be reunited with Russia.

    So, why are we arming the Ukrainians to help them keep the Crimean Russian population under their thumb?

    This seems to me to be an excellent time to mind our own business.

    Like

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