Cleaning Up a Dispute

Uncategorized 1 Minute

Two days ago I took heat for suggesting that Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland confirmed the existence of US-funded bioweapons labs in Ukraine. Well, actually, I only said that she didn’t deny it when asked point blank. Today, however, we have real confirmation that Russia’s disinformation on this topic was not disinformation at all.

Check out this link, for example, which details U.S. funding of a level-3 biosafety lab in Odessa (Ukraine):

Deleted Web Page Shows Obama Plan to Build BioLab for ‘Especially Dangerous Pathogens’ in Ukraine

Or this announcement from 2010 which corroborates the same event:

https://www.tradelineinc.com/news/2010-6/interim-central-reference-laboratory-opens-bsl-3-facility

If you can stomach him, Tucker Carlson covers the same topic in this video:

Our own government lies to us. If you don’t believe it, this story should convince you.

Published by John Todd Roberts

Published

46 thoughts on “Cleaning Up a Dispute”

  1. Yeah, because if we create dangerous pathogens that we wouldn’t be allowed to work on here an another country with lower standards, there’s no chance a mistake there could affect us here.

    Morons

    Like

    Reply

    1. You two are the MORONS. Can you not read and understand plain English? The Russian claim is that our country was building biological WMDs in that facility. It was a LIE which MORONS are pathetically eager to believe and repeat. It was a facility built to handle the cleanup of USSR biological weapons and to research defenses.

      From Mr. Roberts second source. . .

      “The Interim Central Reference Laboratory opened its BSL-3 facility in Odessa, Ukraine, in June of 2010. Created in alliance with the Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction program, the biocontainment facility will enable scientists to secure and eliminate weapons of mass destruction in former Soviet states. ”

      The Kirk nonsense highlighted that it was capable of handling “especially dangerous pathogens.” Well, DUH!

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply

      1. RE: “The Russian claim is that our country was building biological WMDs in that facility.”

        Please quote the Russian claim.

        A couple of days ago I linked to a Tass article and described it as concerning “the existence of U.S. Department of Defense biolabs in Ukraine.”

        Where was my statement wrong?

        Like

        Reply

        1. “ Please quote the Russian claim.”

          Ok, here it is:

          “ Nuland did not deny that Ukraine has biological weapons and she confirmed that Ukraine’s biolabs are known to DoS and dangerous enough to be concerned about.”

          Liked by 2 people

          Reply

          3. Because you are quoting my words, not Russia’s. My challenge to Mr. Murphy is to quote Russia’s claim as he presented it. So far, neither of you has.

            Like

          4. But your words are Russia’s. That is how misinformation works.

            No billboards or rallies, just seeding lies among the fertile soil of conspiracists, then sit back and watch them grow.

            Putin conquered Georgia (ironic name), flattened Chechnya, took over Belarus, invaded Crimea, invaded Donbas, and is now trying to crush Ukraine.

            Excuses:

            Russians are being slaughtered.

            Crimea wanted to join Russia

            NATO is too close.

            Too many Nazis.

            Since those didn’t fly, now it is bioweapons.

            And you have both believed, promoted and argued that all those were true.

            I said you were in Putin’s pocket. That was really an “ad homonym” sentence. It sounded like an attack, but was the truth.

            IMO

            Liked by 2 people

          5. “My challenge to Mr. Murphy is to quote Russia’s claim as he presented it. So far, neither of you has.”
            Don’t you read the LYING garbage that you link to? From the FIRST paragraph of the TASS press release you eagerly shared. . .

            “Moscow believes that Washington needs to inform the international community about the MILITARY biological programs that were implemented in Ukraine, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said at a briefing on Wednesday.”

            There was no “MILITARY biological programs that were implemented in the Ukraine.” That is a LIE that Russia has been peddling for many years as documented by many reliable resources.

            Liked by 2 people

          7. “ In fact, a 2007 report by the Nuclear Threat Initiative found that the United States’ plans to upgrade a research facility in Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, would improve security mechanisms and “serve to substantially decrease whatever proliferation threat the institute now poses.” They further found no evidence of an offensive bioweapons program and continue to assess Ukraine as a low risk for biological weapons proliferation. A 2021 review by the Global Health Security Index found “an apparent lack of interest in dual-use research among Ukrainian experts and officials.”

            Is this the “evidence” you are referring to?

            If not, can you find one that does?

            There is clearly a breakdown in communication resulting in a crude ad hominem. But I will turn down the offer of gratuitous sex.

            Liked by 2 people

          9. “Fuck you, Rothman.”

            Gee, that sounds a little angry. But, hey, we understand. Anger is very often the first emotional response to being proven to be a dupe eager to spread the lies of an enemy dictator. Your attempt at “Cleaning up a Dispute” has only taken you deeper down the Putin rabbit hole.

            Liked by 1 person

        2. “Please quote the Russian claim.”

          Do you not read the horseshit you spread? Here are the first words in that TASS press release you breathlessly defend.

          “Moscow believes that Washington needs to inform the international community about the military biological programs that were implemented in Ukraine, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said at a briefing on Wednesday.”

          There were no “military biological programs.” That is a LIE. One that liars tell and other lying liars such as Tucker Carlson repeat.

          Liked by 1 person

          Reply

          1. RE: “There were no ‘military biological programs.'”

            Yes, there were. In fact, you can prove it to yourself by reading the FP article Mr. Rothman provided:

            https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/10/bioweapons-ukraine-russia-disinformation/

            But that’s a different issue. You claimed that Russia said the U.S. “was building biological WMDs in that facility.” I asked you to provide the quote supporting your assertion. You haven’t.

            Tass was actually correct in its statement. Why wouldn’t it have been? Russia participated in the program that handed off old Soviet labs and bioweapons inventory in Ukraine to the U.S. after the cold war.

            Like

          2. Good grief! You try to prove you are not being duped and that Russia is telling the truth by referring to a Foreign Policy article with this headline. . .

            “How U.S. Bioweapons in Ukraine Became Russia’s New Big Lie”

            Look again. It is in very large type. Hard to miss unless you really want to.

            Liked by 1 person

        1. Good point.

          If one wishes to wave the American flag and salute like a patriot, the story of these “biological research facilities” should inspire some consternation.

          I might be willing to accept the ugly reality of such things and trust the subject matter experts who were involved if only there was no lying about it. As it is, not so much.

          Like

          Reply

        2. “One of the most corrupt countries in the world?”
          My, what a good little Trumpkin you are. That is complete nonsense.

          “There is some research that shouldn’t be done anywhere”
          It is very clear that – as often happens – you have no idea of what you are talking about. You just run with the latest Tucker Carlson/Fox News/Putin Lies. Kind of what we expect from a party of treason and insurrection. This particular lab researches pig and wild boar viruses and the ticks that transmit them. These are “especially dangerous pathogens” for pigs and for pig farming but are not a threat to human beings. So why should this research “not be done anywhere?”

          https://tinyurl.com/582ukxff

          Oh my, I get my information from WAPO. I must not be able to think for myself. So much better to parrot Tucker Carlson and V. Putin.

          Liked by 1 person

          Reply

          1. Yada yada

            I do not watch Tucker Carleson BTW. haven’t seem him since he got his own show.

            Aside from the fact that swine viruses often cross over to people, dangerous viruses should not be handled in corrupt countries, and yes, Ukraine is corrupt and was so even beofre Hunter got there.

            Like

          2. Dangerous viruses are researched in very corrupt countries. Russia, China, North Korea, are all involved.

            What dangerous viruses is Ukraine studying? Specifically, or do you just guess because Putin said so?

            Liked by 1 person

          3. “Dangerous viruses should not be handled in corrupt countries.”

            No argument there.

            “Ukraine is corrupt”. Yes, it is ranked more corrupt than we are (which may not be a laudable position, but, hey…)

            So now you extrapolate that Ukraine is corrupt so it has a military offensive bioweapons program and that is why Putin has a right to invade.

            Whatever happened to the genocide reason in Donbass? Or NATO being too close? Or Ukraine was created by Lenin a century ago?

            Putin is both shifting the goalposts and making crap up as the war deteriorates for his inept military. And, sadly, you are happy to help his excuses as he flattens cities.

            There is serious concern that Russia will plant some pathogens and offer that as proof and justification for its own bio attack.

            Liked by 2 people

          4. That is your extrapolation, not mine.

            I did not offer it as an excuse for invasion, the justifications, to the extent that it can be remains the same, reclaiming parts of Russia separated b the Soviets, as desired by the people living there, and as a precaution against the advance of NATO, which is a threat because we did not keep our promise not to expand NATO eastward after Germany was reunified.

            Exporting dangerous bio-research to Ukraine was a bad idea, but not a cause for war.

            FWIW, I doubt Russia would attempt a bio attack. You don’t start a plague where you are sending your troops. Bio attacks are more likely acts of terror against a distant country.

            Like

          5. What promise?

            There were a lot of negotiations after 1991, and none included an agreement to not expand NATO into former Warsaw Pact states.

            Agreements and treaties are not done on a handshake. Never have been. Lengthy negotiations resulted in signed agreements with Russia and expansion was not precluded. Heck, there was some effort by Russia to join NATO.

            Here is the story of one agreement:

            https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1997-05/features/nato-russian-founding-act

            PS: Russians have been living in some parts of Ukraine for centuries. So now it is a big deal to “save” them? TASS or no TASS, that is a bull crap excuse. And that flimsy bit was upended with a full scale invasion to take all of a Ukraine.

            Liked by 2 people

          6. French President Macron, among others, confirms that those assurances were given.

            I don’t know that you can put intentions in a treaty.

            And yes, Russians have been living in parts of what is now Ukraine, but it was part of Russia then.

            Like

          7. Gorbachev himself said there was no agreement. And he was there.

            https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

            The deal was about GDR, East Germany, and not having non-German NATO forces in East Germany.

            It was not until Russian invasion of Crimea that NATO started to shore up its defenses in the expanded nations.

            Putin was full of bull then and now. Just like his wanton killing of Ukraine civilians all over the country to “save” Russians in a small corner of the country.

            Liked by 2 people

          11. “Yada yada”

            Yeah, I get it. You are not man enough to admit that you were wrong even when presented with very clear, easy to understand evidence that you were wrong. In fact, more than wrong – totally full of shit.

            In this case, there was a program initiated during the Bush administration to help the former Soviet republics get control of Soviet biological materials. EXISTING biological research institutions in several countries were assisted in making the transition to safe disposal, higher standards and constructive research. That program was ENTIRELY appropriate. But you referred to the people starting it as “MORONS.”

            As for African Swine Flu possibly making the leap to people – it has not yet – is that really a reason NOT to study it and how it is transmitted? You pose as a man of science, but when push comes to shove, you ignore the science. Why? Two words – “Hunter Biden.” Not too laughable.

            Liked by 2 people

          12. “That is your extrapolation, not mine.”

            Is it really so hard to stick to the truth? Apparently

            “… we did not keep our promise not to expand NATO eastward after Germany was reunified.”

            There you go again. There was no such promise. That is a widely debunked Russian LIE. NATO policy has not changed. Any country that meets the entry requirements is welcome to join. NATO has grown from twelve original to thirty current members. Countries from the Warsaw Pact with some bordering on Russia have been joining that since 1999. This is a pretext not the actual casus belli.

            “Exporting dangerous bio-research to Ukraine was a bad idea”
            Another falsehood. There has been no “exporting” of bio-research. EXISTING organizations were aided in the process of doing their research more safely. Period. The focus of research in Ukraine has been on pig viruses which are a problem specific to that part of the world. It has NEVER been found in the United States.

            Liked by 1 person

          13. “French President Macron, among others, confirms that those assurances were given.”

            Ridiculous. He was twelve years old when the Berlin Wall came down. The most he knows is hearsay. You will believe ANYBODY except for your fellow Americans. And, quit keep playing dumb. (You are playing, right?) Important understandings between governments are documented at the time they are reached. If not in a treaty, then at the very least in an exchange of letters or Memos Of Understanding.

            Liked by 2 people

  2. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/10/bioweapons-ukraine-russia-disinformation/

    Bottom line is that some Americans have been duped and prefer to believe Putin and the Russian disinformation machine rather than the West.

    If this belief catches on, which it has through FOX and “friends”, it gives a great pretext for Russia to use bioweapons on the citizens of besieged cities. Who’s going to notice the cholera breakout in Kyiv and blame anything but nature? And if they do, we’ll the Russians had no choice against US backed bioweapons facilities.

    Tucker and pals are todays Tokyo Roses.

    Liked by 3 people

    Reply

    1. RE: “Tucker and pals are todays Tokyo Roses.”

      If that’s true, why does your FP link confirm the facts that Carlson’s editorial relies on?

      Do you still deny there were U.S. funded labs in Ukraine engaged in research related to biological weapons?

      Like

      Reply

      1. “Do you still deny there were U.S. funded labs in Ukraine engaged in research related to biological weapons?”

        More to the point, do you still agree with Russia that America’s DOD was financing the development of biological weapons in Ukraine? THAT was the claim. The existence of these labs and their peaceful purpose is not some dramatic discovery made by heroic Russian troops. It has been a matter of public record since 2005 when we began helping former Soviet republics clean up their acts in this area.

        Liked by 1 person

        Reply

        1. RE: “do you still agree with Russia that America’s DOD was financing the development of biological weapons in Ukraine?”

          I have never said such a thing, and neither has Russia, as far as I know. I have said that DoD sponsored factilities in Ukraine related to biological weapons, and that is factually true. Whether weapons were developed in those facilities or not is unknown to me, although it is known that biological agents capable of being weaponized — even remnants of old Soviet bioweapons — were stored in some facilities.

          Like

          Reply

      2. How does it confirm? Quote the section.

        Notice how the debate has shifted from “bioweapons labs” to “related to…”.

        As we found out in 2020, boots on the ground at labs around the world studying biological pathogens is a good thing. The last administration thought it was better to cut back and denigrate our overseas funding and presence for bio labs.

        Liked by 2 people

        Reply

Leave a comment