Another view of the Ukraine invasion worth reading.

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/cause-ukraine-war-robert-service-moscow-putin-lenin-stalin-history-communism-invasion-kgb-fsb-11646413200

Aside from some scholarly insight into Putin, his viewpoint, and the West’s reaction, there are very interesting historical perspectives. Since we have some pretty strong opinions here, lets see what a historian has to offer.

Published by lenrothman

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30 thoughts on “Another view of the Ukraine invasion worth reading.”

  1. Here is an interesting quote that seems to echo a few local opinions about democracy in general:

    “Putin despises democracy,” Mr. Service says. “He believes in the right of the leadership to impose the authority of the state on society.” In the Russian president’s view, this is good for citizens because it brings stability and predictability into their lives. He also believes in the importance of the secret police as an adjunct of government. In this, Mr. Service points out, many of his methods are “reminiscent of the Soviet period,” even if his ideology isn’t.“

    “Stability and predictability”. That sounds like a conservative principle and has probably some roots in our current right wing movement. To me, the question then becomes, “at what cost” and is it even possible in a very multicultural society like ours.

    Not that stability and predictability are necessarily bad qualities in governance. The Rule of Law is a logical extension of those. But without democracy, who determines what is considered stability and predictability? In my opinion, this is debated today in the CRT and transgender issues, two of the major campaign points for the GOP. And just to add another layer, might also very well be the racial divide both historically and currently.

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    1. Boy that wasn’t even a nice try. You started out describing left wing ideology and then tried to claim it was right wing and then claim opposition to racist devisive left wing CRT and the fact that boys are boys no matter how you dress them as proof of your assertion. Does this word salad end with “this is the house that Jack built”?

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          1. OK. Try reading it again without drinking and maybe you’ll see that Len’s post, based on the WSJ (not exactly a bastion of Liberal policies), makes legitimate points.

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  2. “There are strange things done ‘neath the midnight sun, by the men who moil for gold…”

    Oops, wrong Robert Service

    So, our overtures toward Ukraine to join NATO were unacceptable. Duh!, Putin has been saying that for 15 years at least.

    And, he perceives the West as weak and decadent. Well, why not? Who would look at a country that is obsessed with renaming streets and schools, assigning pronouns, and destroying the economy over climate changes that might happen 1000 years in the future, and think they are serious people able to deal with a real crisis in the moment.

    I think he leaves out a real desire to reunify the Russian people.

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    1. RE: “And, he perceives the West as weak and decadent.”

      Of course he does. The Russians have long engaged in active measures (psychological warfare) to subvert the west. If we are in fact weak and decadent, Putin no doubt sees that as the successful product of his own country’s efforts. The fruits of the KGB’s active measures program would have been part of Putin’s war planning.

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      2. RE: “BUt I thought you said the Russians have not been involved in our Politics.”

        You thought wrong.

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        1. No I did not. All throughout the debate concerning Russian interference in the 2016 election (not to mention the attempts in 2020, you claimed it didn’t happen.

          I remember goodly. You, apparently, not so much.

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        2. RE: “All throughout the debate concerning Russian interference in the 2016 election (not to mention the attempts in 2020, you claimed it didn’t happen.”

          Nope. I said that Russian attempts to influence the election were insignificant. Barack Obama said much the same thing.

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      1. Yet there has been NO condemnation of his actions. Silence signals tacit approval.

        And the Ukrainian people are NOT Russians. There are ethnic similarities but the people of Ukraine do not want to be subjugated to Moscow and the Russian THUG who wants control of a sovereign country.

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        1. In the 1920s, the Soviets redrew boundaries to break up the ethnic Russian population. The Donbas and Crimean regions are ethnic Russian, and apparently that means more there than here.

          Those parts of Ukraine want to return to Russia. That in 100 years those areas remain ethnic Russian demonstrate how different things are seen there than here. Ukraine is NOT a melting pot.

          So, Ukraine does not want to be Russian, but those parts of Ukraine that were originally Russian do.

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      2. You do not assess Putin’s views and motives. You endorse them.

        You are a very active, very loud SUPPORTER of this murderous fascist gangster.
        And that ain’t no lie.

        What is very telling is what you take to be signs of weakness in our country.

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          2. Don’t assume I support the ban.

            But if knee jerk antipathy toward all things Russian is the threshold for being the good guys then a lot of people you support will fall short.

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  4. The WSJ piece usefully highlights our “shambolic mismanagement” of diplomacy with respect to relations between Russia and Ukraine. Recognizing our own hand in making the current mess should curb our hubris in dealing with it.

    I don’t think that lionizing Zelenskyy or fantasizing about Putin’s removal from office are helpful. These narratives amount to warmongering and will inspire miscalculation.

    The CIA appears to be geared up to prosecute a long war of insurgency in Ukraine. If that prospect were put to a vote in the U.S. I doubt the public would support it.

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    2. “The CIA appears to be geared up”…

      And you know this because?

      Supporting a democratic government is something we have done for decades. Assisting the Ukrainians in fighting for their existence is a good and right thing to do.

      Isolationist policies do nothing beneficial for this country.

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      2. RE: “Supporting a democratic government is something we have done for decades. Assisting the Ukrainians in fighting for their existence is a good and right thing to do.”

        Normally, only Congress can declare war. The CIA, however, can take us to war without the consent of the American people. If you are in favor of American democracy, you should oppose starting an undeclared secret war against Russia in Ukraine.

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        1. Who called for Congress to declare war? WHen was the last time COngress actually DID declare war. They have forked over that responsibility to the Executive so they could keep their hands clean. Tim Kaine has been proposing for several years now the revocation of the 2001 agreement that ALL Presidents since have utilized (Usually wrongly).

          I am in favor of a democracy in a country that voted out a puppet President DEMOCRATICALLY. I am in favor of supporting our allies. I am in favor of peace, by whatever means necessary.

          However, if you think it is OK for one country to unjustifiably attack and occupy another, then you, sir, who have proclaimed faith in OUR Constitution, are lying to yourself. And the rest of us.

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          1. “ I am in favor of a democracy in a country that voted out a puppet President DEMOCRATICALLY.”

            Hey, didn’t we just do the same thing in 2020?

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