When it comes to education, we need to trust the parents’ instincts about what’s best for their children; the government has not right to intervene or mandate. When it comes to someone’s preferred pronouns or manner of dress, that is very much the government’s business, apparently. Gotta love those limited government, trust the parents conservatives.
So parents can complain about curriculums, justified or not, but can’t take care of their children in a manner consistent with their preferred choices?
I never thought I would be able to use this so soon.: “Hypocrites kick with their hind feet while licking with their tongues.”
Paxton and Abbott didn’t say anything about pronouns or dress, they said irreversible surgical and hormonal therapies on minors are abuse.
You’re fighting a straw man.
Gender dysphoria is not the only form of dysphoria. Some people find their arms or legs offensive and seek amputation. Would that be OK with you for a child?
There is a big difference between the physical and the mental.
And will they stop parents form allowing children to undergo cosmetic surgery procedures, such as breast implants or even Botox treatments? That sounds a lot more like child abuse to me than treating the mental aspects of a minor with gender dysphoria.
So I suppose the next move by the state will be to empower citizens to report parents whom they suspect in return for a $10,000 bounty.
Vigilante justice is returning to the “ole West”.
Perhaps some of those vigilantes could turn in AG Paxton. He is already under indictment for securities fraud. And now he is breaking Texas’ open records laws by withholding his emails from his office about 1/6.
Puberty blockers and transition surgery bring irreversible changes, including infertility, that last a lifetime.
Minors cannot give informed consent about permanent alteration of their sexuality before they have gone through puberty, as puberty makes changes to the brain as well as the sexual organs.
Irreversible surgeries and endocrine intervention prior to the child’s mature appreciation of their bodies and their sexuality is damned well child abuse.
Many years ago, I had a child patient who had a number of cavities needing fillings, The parent request I extract the child’s permanent teeth so she wouldn’t have to waste money on fillings for years to come.
Should I have followed the parent’s wishes? The result would have lasted that child’s lifetime.
I refused, of course.
There are limits to a parent’s authority. Certainly, they can refuse treatment, but to impose active, permanent changes on a child that the child may well regret is definitely abuse.
Medical professionals all are bound by the principle of ‘first, do no harm’
If an adult chooses to have teeth extracted unnecessarily, or other bits removed, that is their right, but doing harm to a child, even if the parent makes that choice, is abuse.
Agreed. It is perfectly reasonable for the state to recognize the potential for child abuse in any medical treatment, including treatments for gender dysphoria.
I notice that neither the causes of gender dysphoria nor the safety and efficacy of available treatments are well understood. Until that changes, I’d support laws that make irreversible treatment options unavailable to children.
“Treatment for gender dysphoria in adolescents involves almost exclusively nonsurgical interventions that don’t begin until puberty and only where medically necessary and with informed consent from both parents and the minor patient. The conversation over this care would suggest that thousands of prepubertal children are being rushed into surgery—but no prepubertal children get medical treatment for gender dysphoria at all.”
I don’t really have a dog in this hunt. but some of the posts seem almost hysterical.
I don’t have children that are suffering from dysphoria, but I am certain it is no picnic. It seems, just like the abortion issue, that folks who do not need or have dysphoria treatments are more than willing to prevent others from seeking best medical procedures for their families.
Referring to medical treatment as “child abuse” is similar referring to abortion as murder. Words used to instill fear and anger without taking into the consideration the fear and anger felt by those who are threatened by others taking away their rights.
Even in adults, body altering treatments for dysphoria too often just mean a different reason for suicide.
Puberty, and the hormonal rush that comes with it changes many things. It is quite likely that unhappiness with one’s body changes when it starts working differently.
Making irreversible changes prior to that event is abuse.
Aside from which, it is too easy for parents suffering from a delusion to impose that view on a child.
“Even in adults, body altering treatments for dysphoria too often just mean a different reason for suicide.”
The medical research suggests the opposite is true.
“Aside from which, it is too easy for parents suffering from a delusion to impose that view on a child.”
There is a significant amount of therapy and meetings and testing that patients must complete before they can begin hormone or reassignment surgery. It’s not as if “woke” parents are walking into doctor’s offices and asking for operations on 6 year olds. Gender dysphoria is a medical diagnosis like any other disorder. It must be proven and documented by professionals before treatment can begin. It’s amazing how all your medical expertise goes out the window when we start talking about marginalized people.
My ‘medical expertise’ includes understanding that puberty changes a lot of things.
Drugs to prevent puberty block that natural process, and there is no way to know if dysphoria will persist past puberty, so in effect, you have robbed that child of that choice as an adult.
Let your little boy wear a dress if you think that will make him happy, but don’t hack off what can’t be replaced and don’t prevent the natural maturing that comes with puberty.
If you do, you have done real harm no matter what choice would have come later.
Tommy John surgeries are usually done to reconstruct a damaged ligament ‘better than new’ but I guess some people might choose it as an enhancement. Even so, it is not done absent an injury under 15 years old and it does not prevent you from having children for life, Not the same thing at all.
I’m pretty much ‘whatever floats your boat’ on sexual issues, but irreversible, life altering changes before puberty crosses the line.
This is nonsense. It is in every aspect abhorant child abuse to either enable fantasy or, especially, mutilate a child. They are absolutely correct in identifying those actions as unlawful. If not already, they should be class 3 felonies or higher.
“Gender affirming care” is unlikely to be surgical or even pharmaceutical in nature for minors. Therapy to assist a child suffering from gender dysphoria is essential for the mental health of the child. It seems that ANY treatment being considered BY THE PARENTS to care for their children is being called into question.
They are offering a solution in search of a problem. Why? Because they gotta have their culture war issues front and center.
Ask yourself why they think it is necessary. Is there a line of pre-pubescents lining up at doctor’s offices asking for medical interventions, with or without parents in tow? Are parents dragging their psychologically diagnosed dysphoric children to get gender reassignment surgery or start hormone treatments that you mentioned?
What is their motivation? Seriously? Is Texas full of Bobrsmiths who fear those who are different so much they feel a new law has to be passed to protect children from their parents?
I will recommend everyone read “This is how it always is” by Laurie Frankel; as a very good novel with insight into what goes on with young trans-gender children. Based on a true story.
When it comes to education, we need to trust the parents’ instincts about what’s best for their children; the government has not right to intervene or mandate. When it comes to someone’s preferred pronouns or manner of dress, that is very much the government’s business, apparently. Gotta love those limited government, trust the parents conservatives.
LikeLiked by 1 person
So parents can complain about curriculums, justified or not, but can’t take care of their children in a manner consistent with their preferred choices?
I never thought I would be able to use this so soon.: “Hypocrites kick with their hind feet while licking with their tongues.”
LikeLike
Paxton and Abbott didn’t say anything about pronouns or dress, they said irreversible surgical and hormonal therapies on minors are abuse.
You’re fighting a straw man.
Gender dysphoria is not the only form of dysphoria. Some people find their arms or legs offensive and seek amputation. Would that be OK with you for a child?
LikeLiked by 1 person
There is a big difference between the physical and the mental.
And will they stop parents form allowing children to undergo cosmetic surgery procedures, such as breast implants or even Botox treatments? That sounds a lot more like child abuse to me than treating the mental aspects of a minor with gender dysphoria.
Another GOP solution in search of a problem.
LikeLike
So I suppose the next move by the state will be to empower citizens to report parents whom they suspect in return for a $10,000 bounty.
Vigilante justice is returning to the “ole West”.
Perhaps some of those vigilantes could turn in AG Paxton. He is already under indictment for securities fraud. And now he is breaking Texas’ open records laws by withholding his emails from his office about 1/6.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh piffle.
Paxton and Abbott are absolutely right.
Puberty blockers and transition surgery bring irreversible changes, including infertility, that last a lifetime.
Minors cannot give informed consent about permanent alteration of their sexuality before they have gone through puberty, as puberty makes changes to the brain as well as the sexual organs.
Irreversible surgeries and endocrine intervention prior to the child’s mature appreciation of their bodies and their sexuality is damned well child abuse.
Many years ago, I had a child patient who had a number of cavities needing fillings, The parent request I extract the child’s permanent teeth so she wouldn’t have to waste money on fillings for years to come.
Should I have followed the parent’s wishes? The result would have lasted that child’s lifetime.
I refused, of course.
There are limits to a parent’s authority. Certainly, they can refuse treatment, but to impose active, permanent changes on a child that the child may well regret is definitely abuse.
LikeLike
“I refused, of course.”
I wholeheartedly agree that we should trust the opinions of relevant medical professionals on such issues.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Medical professionals all are bound by the principle of ‘first, do no harm’
If an adult chooses to have teeth extracted unnecessarily, or other bits removed, that is their right, but doing harm to a child, even if the parent makes that choice, is abuse.
LikeLike
And in this case, the medical community is in agreement that fulfilling the Hippocratic oath means treating dysphoria.
LikeLiked by 1 person
in adults.
Irreversible changes in pre-pubescent children, no,
LikeLike
RE: “Paxton and Abbott are absolutely right.”
Agreed. It is perfectly reasonable for the state to recognize the potential for child abuse in any medical treatment, including treatments for gender dysphoria.
I notice that neither the causes of gender dysphoria nor the safety and efficacy of available treatments are well understood. Until that changes, I’d support laws that make irreversible treatment options unavailable to children.
LikeLike
“Treatment for gender dysphoria in adolescents involves almost exclusively nonsurgical interventions that don’t begin until puberty and only where medically necessary and with informed consent from both parents and the minor patient. The conversation over this care would suggest that thousands of prepubertal children are being rushed into surgery—but no prepubertal children get medical treatment for gender dysphoria at all.”
I don’t really have a dog in this hunt. but some of the posts seem almost hysterical.
I don’t have children that are suffering from dysphoria, but I am certain it is no picnic. It seems, just like the abortion issue, that folks who do not need or have dysphoria treatments are more than willing to prevent others from seeking best medical procedures for their families.
LikeLiked by 1 person
…”but some of the posts seem almost hysterical.”
That’s the playbook.
Referring to medical treatment as “child abuse” is similar referring to abortion as murder. Words used to instill fear and anger without taking into the consideration the fear and anger felt by those who are threatened by others taking away their rights.
LikeLike
Paxton’s opinion was that irreversible hormonal or surgical treatment is abuse under existing Texas law.
LikeLike
“Paxton’s opinion “…
His opinions, ALL OF THEM, should be questioned as legal or ethical based on his own personal history of indictments.
LikeLike
Even in adults, body altering treatments for dysphoria too often just mean a different reason for suicide.
Puberty, and the hormonal rush that comes with it changes many things. It is quite likely that unhappiness with one’s body changes when it starts working differently.
Making irreversible changes prior to that event is abuse.
Aside from which, it is too easy for parents suffering from a delusion to impose that view on a child.
LikeLike
Like the delusion of CRT?
LikeLike
“Even in adults, body altering treatments for dysphoria too often just mean a different reason for suicide.”
The medical research suggests the opposite is true.
“Aside from which, it is too easy for parents suffering from a delusion to impose that view on a child.”
There is a significant amount of therapy and meetings and testing that patients must complete before they can begin hormone or reassignment surgery. It’s not as if “woke” parents are walking into doctor’s offices and asking for operations on 6 year olds. Gender dysphoria is a medical diagnosis like any other disorder. It must be proven and documented by professionals before treatment can begin. It’s amazing how all your medical expertise goes out the window when we start talking about marginalized people.
LikeLiked by 1 person
My ‘medical expertise’ includes understanding that puberty changes a lot of things.
Drugs to prevent puberty block that natural process, and there is no way to know if dysphoria will persist past puberty, so in effect, you have robbed that child of that choice as an adult.
Let your little boy wear a dress if you think that will make him happy, but don’t hack off what can’t be replaced and don’t prevent the natural maturing that comes with puberty.
If you do, you have done real harm no matter what choice would have come later.
LikeLike
I imagine I would follow the advice of the psychological community and my kid’s doctors over a guy with reactionary opinions about everything.
I’m also fairly certain you must be 18 or 21 before anything surgical can happen, so no one is “hacking off” anything from little boys.
LikeLiked by 1 person
So, how about FGM?
Is hacking things off of little girls because the parents want it different?
LikeLike
FGM is illegal in this country. And is a big swig out of let field on this topic.
LikeLike
How is it different?
The parents sincerely believe that God doesn’t want women to experience sexual pleasure and that the procedure is to save the girl’s soul.
LikeLike
FGM and gender reassignment surgery are two very different things, actually. And minors can’t get the latter, so who is introducing straw men now?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Tattoos, breast enhancements, Tommy John surgery on young boys…these are all irreversible procedures that parents still do.
Oh, don’t forget circumcision. Mutilation in the name of religion.
If we are that concerned about other people’s parental decisions, lets include those.
Transgender people have been with us for millennia. Only in the modern era have we learned a lot more about the why’s and wherefores.
Luckily, the hatred and violence around sexual issues is still very much alive and kicking. 😇
LikeLiked by 1 person
A kid with a Tommy John enhanced fastball and a great set of jugs would be unstoppable in high school.
LikeLike
Brutal!
LikeLike
Breast enhancements on prepubescent girls??
Tommy John surgeries are usually done to reconstruct a damaged ligament ‘better than new’ but I guess some people might choose it as an enhancement. Even so, it is not done absent an injury under 15 years old and it does not prevent you from having children for life, Not the same thing at all.
I’m pretty much ‘whatever floats your boat’ on sexual issues, but irreversible, life altering changes before puberty crosses the line.
LikeLike
This is nonsense. It is in every aspect abhorant child abuse to either enable fantasy or, especially, mutilate a child. They are absolutely correct in identifying those actions as unlawful. If not already, they should be class 3 felonies or higher.
LikeLike
“Gender affirming care” is unlikely to be surgical or even pharmaceutical in nature for minors. Therapy to assist a child suffering from gender dysphoria is essential for the mental health of the child. It seems that ANY treatment being considered BY THE PARENTS to care for their children is being called into question.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Paxton and Abbot didn’t say anything about non-surgical and non-pharmaceutical therapies.
LikeLike
They are offering a solution in search of a problem. Why? Because they gotta have their culture war issues front and center.
Ask yourself why they think it is necessary. Is there a line of pre-pubescents lining up at doctor’s offices asking for medical interventions, with or without parents in tow? Are parents dragging their psychologically diagnosed dysphoric children to get gender reassignment surgery or start hormone treatments that you mentioned?
What is their motivation? Seriously? Is Texas full of Bobrsmiths who fear those who are different so much they feel a new law has to be passed to protect children from their parents?
LikeLike
It’s not a new law, it is an opinion on whether existing law applies.
LikeLike
I call into question any opinion from an indicted AG.
LikeLike
how about an indicted ham sandwich?
LikeLike
But you avoided my question. What is their motivation for this opinion?
Meanwhile, the new voting laws in Texas are proving to be disastrous. Those were based on Abbot’s and Paxton’s (and some other loser) “opinions” also.
LikeLike
I doubt that “gender affirming care” is a valid medical term.
LikeLike
I will recommend everyone read “This is how it always is” by Laurie Frankel; as a very good novel with insight into what goes on with young trans-gender children. Based on a true story.
LikeLike